Jump to content
MalaysianWings - Malaysia's Premier Aviation Portal
Mohd Azizul Ramli

MAS New 15 A330-300X + 4 A330-200 Freighter

Recommended Posts

I think that MH has already stated why it is not considering the B787 for this order - it needs the planes to be delivered very soon due to their tardy decision making process. Their old A332/A333 are in urgent need of replacement. The other reason is that MH has MRO expertise in handling this plane - so maintenance will not be a big issue as they will be familiar with this aircraft type. If they choose the RR Trent 700EP engine (SQ is using this engine), MTOW will be higher than their old planes too.

 

This is, at best, a stop gap decision. I am sure more orders will be dished out soon and don't discount orders for the B747-8I!

Edited by flee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why they don't "fully" refurbish their current A330-300 fleet first? not only the first/business class.

 

I think i made this statement before, but i'll say it again.

 

I read on this forum, that when MAS was given the chance to refurbish the plane (new seats, IFE ETC), apparently it went over the MTOW of the current 333s and 332s.

Hence only the smarties seats scheme.

 

Can someone correct me on this?

 

Also, can anyone list down the MTOWs and the capacity for the 350/787/330/777?

 

I know from graphics that the 787 is essentially designed to replace the 767 and go head to head with the 332.

Edited by Sharil Abdul Rahman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever the decision MH made, how many variety of new fleet MH wants, just have that ancient livery changed. Long overdue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Atleast it's better than the current 330's no?? If they were to order the 350's or the 787's now, the delivery date would be ages from today. Well, a new aircraft is a new aircraft and for most season travelers all they care about is the IFE, seats, service etc. How and with what they do it, they don't care.

 

And yes, well said Gavin. The LCD cockpit, IGW are all improvements.

 

Doesn't the current A330 utilize a full glass cockpit? Just wondering, what difference would LCD displays make?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^have to say, love the livery. Regardless if it's 333 or 787, as pax, I hope they hv state-of-the -art seat + IFE. Not just biz and first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maximum Range of the 772ER's is 7,700NM (14,260KM)

Maximum Range of the A333X is 5,669NM (10,500KM)

 

So the A333 will not be replacing the 772ER's on the long haul routes to Europe, more likely that it will replace the current Flights to Australia (BNE/PER/MEL) along with flights to Regional flights, South Asia, China..

 

So it is looking like a good purchase for MH, since they need the new aircraft as soon as possible, especially when you compare the current offerings on the A330 on medium haul flights such as Perth with that of its counterparts in SQ and CX..

 

The B772's are still going strong, so they can go on for a couple years more, until the delivery slots for the A350 etc start to open up. No real point ordering an airplane who's precise specifications are as yet unknown right now when it will only be delivered 2013 (A350)

 

hope their IFE and cabin is updated with these new birds!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As predicted earlier, MH to place order for big ticket items soon after the stumbling block left. From the family history, I bet my 2 cents they will order RR engine for the new A333.

 

Currently, MH has a number of widebody grounded and there isn’t any known plan or forecast that MH will be short of widebody aircraft within the next 2 to 3 years. As 787 and A350 is only available from 2013/14, should MH wish to have a modern and better cabin, MH can refurbish existing 772 and A333 or lease until 787/A350 become available.

 

There is no doubt, A333 has improved over the years but is coming toward the end of product life cycle. MH ordering A333 is akin to replace DC-10 with MD-11 instead of 772 :pardon:

 

:drinks:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever the decision MH made, how many variety of new fleet MH wants, just have that ancient livery changed. Long overdue.

 

I like the MH livery. it is a beautiful classic, but perhaps it needs some very subtle and minor tweaks here and there, example, make the "Malaysia" font bigger on the A330 fuselage.

 

Changing the livery might not end up being a good thing. Lest we forget the artistic competencies of MH in introducing the famed smarties seats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a flight of the same duration, the A330 will easily burn 1000kg less fuel per hour than the B777. So it does not make sense for MH to replace the A330 with the B777. For the long haul flights ( 10 hours or more ) the present B772 fleet is more than sufficient. For those asking MH to get the B748, you are making no sense at all. Why get it when the A380 is definitely coming? To confirm the matter regarding refurbishing the present fleet of A330's, the matter was considered but the weight increase that will result makes the decision not feasible. IMHO the decision to get the A330 is a pretty good one for now and the near future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am very disappointed that MH had come to a conclusion of deciding A330s instead of more advanced and fuel efficient B787s or perhaps the B777LR. It may look like MH's future fleet will be AIRBUS dominated. In my opinion, MH does not need A380s, one of the reason that they chose the beast is probably a matter of pride. I don't see A330s will benefits MH's route in the long term especially MH's next fleet renewal may be 15 years later and A330s will be completely outdated by then. The management is making silly excuse and again it seems like such purchase may be of political reason apart from the discount given by AIRBUS. If you are thinking of better comfort and etc, SQ, CX and TG will certainly be a better choice in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

should MH wish to have a modern and better cabin, MH can refurbish existing 772 and A333 or lease until 787/A350 become available.

 

The 772's perhaps (as it too was designed with the intention of such on-board infrastructure - but the present A330 fleet - I think not when it comes to cabin refurbishment... the aircraft are fairly worn out. The infrastructure of the aircraft to include passenger entertainment systems is diminished - so if they were to add one, it would be inferior to competitors and non cost-worthy. The original A330 platform, which MH presently operates was designed in the mid-80's and delivered in 1994 to MAS - 15 years of loyal service. Back then, passenger cabins were merely seats with giant screens in front of each cabin zone. How many original A330's in the world TODAY have an IFE suite? IIRC, Thai & Cathay were also recepients of the aircraft but did NOT have Personal IFE fitted... THESE airlines subsequently DID order the A330E. In fact, the top selling A333 is the ENHANCED version - it's what QANTAS, Northwest, KLM all operate.

 

There is no doubt, A333 has improved over the years but is coming toward the end of product life cycle. MH ordering A333 is akin to replace DC-10 with MD-11 instead of 772 :pardon:

 

:drinks:

 

Great aircraft such as the 737, 747, 727, A300, A320 have stood the test of time for (in some cases) MORE than 30 years. They have had enhancements to avionics, engines, structural aerodynamics etc etc but the core shell remained basically the same. How can you condemn the A333 to coming to the "end" of its "product life cycle". The aircraft that MAS has just ordered is the A330E. An enhanced version with improved avionic suites, engines and some structural modifications. It may not be 'plastic fantastic' - but it's PROVEN and TESTED. I think it was a good decision.

 

The MD-11, albeit a failure, was REVOLUTIONARY in many other regards - and the Boeing 777 took many a leaf from the design of the MD-11. Unfortunately, the 777 trumped. BUT that being said, still lots of MD-11F's in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MH's 15+10 for A330 plus another 25+25 ( correct me if I'm wrong) for AK's would make Malaysia the largest A330 operator in the world with the US. ....interesting.

 

BTW, a bit dissapointed as MH livery looks far more sexier on the Dreamliner <_<

 

Then again , perhaps the commercial terms like delivery dates, discounts ... plus other things negotiated may have influenced the decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a very poor decision on MH's part as MH is just going back to 2000's technology in 2020 is this what customers want in 2020, 2000's planes. I think Mh should at least order 787 or 350 as the customer will be satisfied they are trying to make a commitment to the future no the past. <_>

 

they supposedly buy a new technology and new version of aircraft.

A350 or B787 are such a good aircraft right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great aircraft such as the 737, 747, 727, A300, A320 have stood the test of time for (in some cases) MORE than 30 years. They have had enhancements to avionics, engines, structural aerodynamics etc etc but the core shell remained basically the same. How can you condemn the A333 to coming to the "end" of its "product life cycle". The aircraft that MAS has just ordered is the A330E. An enhanced version with improved avionic suites, engines and some structural modifications. It may not be 'plastic fantastic' - but it's PROVEN and TESTED. I think it was a good decision.

 

The MD-11, albeit a failure, was REVOLUTIONARY in many other regards - and the Boeing 777 took many a leaf from the design of the MD-11. Unfortunately, the 777 trumped. BUT that being said, still lots of MD-11F's in the world.

 

Like 707, 727, 732, 742, 757, 767, DC-3, DC-8, DC-10, A300, there is no doubt A330 will remain in service for next 30+ years but EADS is unlikely to develop A330 further except for freighter, and it is EADS intention to replace A330 with A350.

 

:drinks:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever the decision MH made, how many variety of new fleet MH wants, just have that ancient livery changed. Long overdue.

 

I think MAS livery is nice. It does a very good job in presenting the colours of Malaysia :) like what many have said, it would be stunning on a B787

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still prefer the current livery...even the wau looks like jellyfish for some of you out there, it is the heritage of Malaysia.

 

About the 330 order, order pun salah, tak order pun salah!

At least they ordered something, better than nothing rite?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From internal sources:

 

Malaysia Airlines and Airbus signed a Memorandum of Understanding today covering the order of 15 A330-300 and acquired purchase options for another 10.

 

The total cost of the 25 aircraft is USD5 billion at list prices. The aircraft which will be delivered from 2011 to 2016 will serve the growing markets of South Asia, China, North Asia, Australia and Middle East.

 

Managing Director/ Chief Executive Officer, Tengku Dato’ Azmil Zahruddin said, "The A330 will complement our incoming fleet of 6 A380 and 35 B737-800. The new fleet will create a strong platform for us to profitably grow – the A380 will serve key long haul destinations such as London and Sydney, the A330 for medium haul markets while the B737-800 will be used to strengthen our domestic and regional routes.

 

“By 2016, all the aircraft we have ordered will be in and we expect to have one of the youngest, most fuel efficient and environmentally friendly fleet in Asia. This will further strengthen and build upon our award-winning service and passenger value. “

 

He added, “Our strategy is to transform from a 100% leased fleet to owning at least a third of the aircraft in our core fleet. We will fund the purchases through a combination of a proposed rights issue and borrowings. This will give us the flexibility to refresh the aircraft on a needs basis to provide our customers with the latest product.”

 

When the 15 A330 aircraft are received, Malaysia Airlines expects to gain annual savings of RM300 million.

 

Airbus Senior Vice President Sales, Customer Affairs Asia, Thomas Friedberger said, “Airbus has never stopped innovating and improving on the A330 family by integrating the experiences and knowledge that we have gained through other Airbus programmes. The continual investment by Airbus into the A330 Family ensures its competitiveness as an efficient and cost effective aircraft for medium haul routes.

 

“MAS will definitely benefit from the lower operating cost the new A330 fleet does offer”.

 

Malaysia Airlines is ordering the new version of the A330-300 which offers significantly expanded capabilities from cabin comfort to aircraft performance. The improved comfort for passengers include state of the art cabin offering better seat comfort, audio video on demand for all classes, and better mobile connectivity.

 

The new A330:

 

1. Better / more efficient than the older A330.

2. Will be used for medium-haul routes. (Will not replace the B777)

3. Will be delivered beginning 2011 (practically immediate delivery).

4. MH will still need to order the B777 replacement for longer routes.

5. A350 / B787 at this moment are not yet commercially produced; any MH order today will NOT be delivered in 2011-2016.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If MH decide to purchase 787 or A350, by the time MH receive 787/A350, 787/A350 would have in service for over 2 years, long enough to iron out any technical issue associated with new aircraft.

 

Older IFE on 744 weight about 3,000kg but latest IFE is considerable lighter. Most MH A333 destinations (except IST) are well within maximum load range. Retrofitting with IFE shouldn’t impose huge penalty to operation.

 

If fuel saving is the criteria to purchase A33E, then more of reason to purchase 787/A350.

 

:drinks:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About the 330 order, order pun salah, tak order pun salah!

At least they ordered something, better than nothing rite?

Agree! :)

 

I know many here are aviation enthusiasts and are disappointed. But from a business point of view, MH did the right thing by not ordering planes that are yet to be in the market. The total cost of ownership should be far lower than those paper aeroplanes that have yet to enter airline service. More importantly MH will get the planes ASAP. Unlike other airlines, MH cannot afford to wait till after 2016 for its new planes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If fuel saving is the criteria to purchase A33E, then more of reason to purchase 787/A350.

MAS has always been a late bloomer. CX is not ordering any 787 or 350 just yet while SIA will continue to take delivery of more 333 in the next few years. So MAS is not exactly alone in this case. Mind you all that all the examples mentioned are reputable carriers.

 

By the way, EK too has ordered 30x 333 right ? And delivery will only start in 2011 or 2012 if my memory serves me correctly. If EK thinks the 333 are going to work fine for them then why wouldn't it be for MH ?

 

The first 787 will most likely to enter service in 2011 or 2012 while 350 in what ? 2016 or 2017 ? Ordering the enhanced 333 now makes perfect sense. This is at least a promised technology and we do not know much about the 787 and 350 yet.

 

 

I am very disappointed that MH had come to a conclusion of deciding A330s instead of more advanced and fuel efficient B787s or perhaps the B777LR.

77L is so out of the picture. MAS won't be able to make this plane type work for them.

 

 

It may look like MH's future fleet will be AIRBUS dominated.

Not really. They do have a huge backlog order for Boeing 737-800.

Edited by Isaac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think i made this statement before, but i'll say it again.

 

I read on this forum, that when MAS was given the chance to refurbish the plane (new seats, IFE ETC), apparently it went over the MTOW of the current 333s and 332s.

Hence only the smarties seats scheme.

 

Can someone correct me on this?

 

Also, can anyone list down the MTOWs and the capacity for the 350/787/330/777?

 

I know from graphics that the 787 is essentially designed to replace the 767 and go head to head with the 332.

 

sorry for being silly here :sorry: , isn't newer design seats can be lighter? from my observation, current A330 Econ seats are kind of bulky and heavy for me if conpare to the others, newer products. example1 example2 and ours, example . p/s, i'm not requesting for fully equip with IFE/PTV btw. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SQ is renowned as one the youngest fleet in the world by all time. MH fails to take into considerations that they are actually operating aircraft for many many years in fact in most cases more than 15 years. I don't think A330E will still be ecologically friendly, fuel efficient by then.....that will most likely be an classical planes by then. MH is not responsive to fleet renewal unlike SQ, CX and etc.. that's d fact. MH need to looks forward and not just 2-5 years or so from now. SQ is very much different in view of the fleet renewal is rather short and quick.

Edited by Kenneth T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...