MAS New 15 A330-300X + 4 A330-200 Freighter

[Kee Hooi Yen 0]

My mum was once upgraded to bussiness class at the check-in counter and she didn't know until she came back from the trip and i told her about it. When i asked her what's the different between bussiness & economy class, she can hardly tell but one thing she has noticed and puzzled her was why the aircraft was so short and only has a few rows of seat than the 'usual '....

[Ahmad M 1]

Yes, I have mentioned a few times already, 380 is an exception. Based on what you are saying, SQ passengers will want to avoid the old 777 even after they have been refurbished?

 

 

 

 

Maybe they can tell the difference, but is it important? Let me put it this way: Average Joe flew the 787 and the flight crew ignored him, they ran out of his choice of food, had to sit at the window because there were no aisle seats left. But he saw a good action movie on the 11 inch screen.

 

Average Jane got "a WHOLE can of coke!" when she asked for a glass, got her choice of food, no one sat in the seat next to her, and saw a great chick flick on the 6 inch screen. She flew A330. What would Joe and Jane remember from this flight? Would they even remember the size of the IFE screen, or just that they got to watch a nice movie? Next time they fly, would they choose the airline or aircraft? Perhaps Joe might choose the 380 if that route was upgraded because it is a BIG plane, but if it was any other aircraft, I doubt he would want to fly that airline again... unless there is a special offer on...

 

Actually I am also disappointed that MH is buying "only" A330s. But I also understand that at this point, they have no other choice. A350 and 787 needs so much lead time so would be appropriate for the next round of purchases. That they shouldn't wait too long before ordering is something I totally agree with. From my point of view, you need to balance passenger's comfort with cost-business decisions. These days I find that cabin improvements is not that visible to passengers. It doesn't take anyone long to realize that Y class in 380 is like any other Y class. Well, more frequent fliers will note the quietness of the cabins. Other improvements are barely visible unless you really fly a lot. Is 20 years of tech advancement a lot? Do the average passengers go wow when sitting in a 777 instead of a 767 or 747 for that matter?

 

 

 

Good post.

[Kenneth T 0]

Yes, I have mentioned a few times already, 380 is an exception. Based on what you are saying, SQ passengers will want to avoid the old 777 even after they have been refurbished?

 

 

 

 

Maybe they can tell the difference, but is it important? Let me put it this way: Average Joe flew the 787 and the flight crew ignored him, they ran out of his choice of food, had to sit at the window because there were no aisle seats left. But he saw a good action movie on the 11 inch screen.

 

Average Jane got "a WHOLE can of coke!" when she asked for a glass, got her choice of food, no one sat in the seat next to her, and saw a great chick flick on the 6 inch screen. She flew A330. What would Joe and Jane remember from this flight? Would they even remember the size of the IFE screen, or just that they got to watch a nice movie? Next time they fly, would they choose the airline or aircraft? Perhaps Joe might choose the 380 if that route was upgraded because it is a BIG plane, but if it was any other aircraft, I doubt he would want to fly that airline again... unless there is a special offer on...

 

Actually I am also disappointed that MH is buying "only" A330s. But I also understand that at this point, they have no other choice. A350 and 787 needs so much lead time so would be appropriate for the next round of purchases. That they shouldn't wait too long before ordering is something I totally agree with. From my point of view, you need to balance passenger's comfort with cost-business decisions. These days I find that cabin improvements is not that visible to passengers. It doesn't take anyone long to realize that Y class in 380 is like any other Y class. Well, more frequent fliers will note the quietness of the cabins. Other improvements are barely visible unless you really fly a lot. Is 20 years of tech advancement a lot? Do the average passengers go wow when sitting in a 777 instead of a 767 or 747 for that matter?

 

 

 

Well, should MH confine itself by comparing itself with AirAsia only? Let's not forget that emerging airlines like Qatar, Etihad and etc. By placing an order on the A333s will be similar of flying A300B4 now in 10-15 years time. Well, what is obvious is the cost of running such aircraft will involves higher operating cost as well. Does this justify the fact that having short term gain and long term pain?

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

There are of course, many perspectives that one can view this issue, be it from the airline's point of view or the passengers' point of view.

 

However, in my opinion, ultimately, it is what the airline does that matter the most. Each decision that the airline made will results in significant impact to its passengers. So we have to think of it from the airline's point of view, as it will have direct effects to us all - passengers. After all, this is an aviation enthusiast forum, who else would care more about this matter other than us?

 

Some scenarios to ponder:

 

By choosing the A333s, MH MAY still have to impose fuel surcharge to the passengers in 2015 when the aviation fuel price skyrocketes (for instance). D7 on the other hand MAY still not impose any fuel surcharge because by then, they will be operating a supposedly more fuel efficient A350s. The direct impact to passengers: higher airfares and fuel surcharge by MH. Is this good to us?

 

Or, being a premium and a so called '5 star' airline at it, MH is expected to offer many new extras in their premium and economy cabins. MH after all is known in the industry for charging quite a premium fares for its premium product (on selected routes). Competitors such as SQ introduced a Suite in 2007, EK introduced a spa aboard their A380s in 2008. To remain competitive, MH should comes out with 'something' in 2011, at least a new seat for the premium and economy cabins. Those things (should MH decided to add more than just ne seats) will add more weight to the aircrafts and MH has done so many things in the past to further reduce its aircraft weight - removal of footrests, abolishing the tray meal service on regional flights, reducing galley equipments and amount of food loaded etc, all in the name of cost saving. Can MH ensure that those extra things to the passengers (footrests, trayed meal service on regional flights etc) will be re-introduced back once the new A333s come online? Or the condition will still be the same as MH will still struggling to cut on fuel cost at the time when competitors such as D7 and SQ have operated their supposedly more fuel efficient and lighter A350 and B787 aircrafts?

[Wilson Kook 0]

How can we assume that MAS isn't gonna place anymore orders within 15-20 years time? It's ridiculous to compare our current fleet with the 2020 fleet. None of us know what they'll have, and what they wont have. We'll just have to wait and see. There's a difference between SHORT-TERM initiatives and LONG TERM initiatives. The new A333s are merely MAS's immediate response to its wide-body fleet renewal, and the dates of entry are certain, but it doesn't mean it's the LAST wide-body order for the next 20 years. Let's say MAS were to order B787s and A350s today. How sure are we that we'll see those birds on our shores within 1-2 years? No, right? Even if they were to place orders for "state of the art" aircraft, what aircraft is MAS gonna use in the mean time? The same old smarties infected and tired looking birds. Then all of us are gonna complain and whine about it again.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Wilson Kook

[Kenneth T 0]

Well, what is obvious is that we don't expect to see B787s or the A350s in the next 5 or 10 years since they claimed that delivery slots will only be available after 2020s. By then, if they really place an order of this birds....it will not be anything new in the aviation industry.

[Wilson Kook 0]

Well, what is obvious is that we don't expect to see B787s or the A350s in the next 5 or 10 years since they claimed that delivery slots will only be available after 2020s. By then, if they really place an order of this birds....it will not be anything new in the aviation industry.

 

I agree with you Kenneth. But the thing is, there's not much that MAS can do atm. Things don't seem to be going their way atm, as far as wide-body a/c is concerned

 

[flee 5]

I agree with you Kenneth. But the thing is, there's not much that MAS can do atm. Things don't seem to be going their way atm, as far as wide-body a/c is concerned

 

Unfortunately these guys don't really want to hear this - they want MH to order the B787 now and nothing else. I have been telling them throughout this thread that the A333 is MH's best option under current circumstances but they refuse to accept the rationale. They refuse to accept that the A333 that MH ordered is different and much improved from those that are currently in the fleet. They refuse to accept to leasing is not an option as MH will have difficulty finding newish A333's or B767s to lease in such numbers. They refuse to accept that there are other factors that MH has to consider, e.g. maintenance and training costs of a new type of aircraft such as the B787. They refused to look at the big picture and that MH could be ordering those new tech aircraft later on, after some real life operational experience has been gained. They refuse to accept that the B787/A350 has the possibility of further lengthy delays as the aircraft has a lot of new and unproven technonolgy. They refuse to accept that MH's priorities are different from their own!

 

That is why I gave up trying to explain... running an airline is more than just choosing aircraft types based on fuel burn and new technology.

[Kenneth T 0]

Unfortunately these guys don't really want to hear this - they want MH to order the B787 now and nothing else. I have been telling them throughout this thread that the A333 is MH's best option under current circumstances but they refuse to accept the rationale. They refuse to accept that the A333 that MH ordered is different and much improved from those that are currently in the fleet. They refuse to accept to leasing is not an option as MH will have difficulty finding newish A333's or B767s to lease in such numbers. They refuse to accept that there are other factors that MH has to consider, e.g. maintenance and training costs of a new type of aircraft such as the B787. They refused to look at the big picture and that MH could be ordering those new tech aircraft later on, after some real life operational experience has been gained. They refuse to accept that the B787/A350 has the possibility of further lengthy delays as the aircraft has a lot of new and unproven technonolgy. They refuse to accept that MH's priorities are different from their own!

 

That is why I gave up trying to explain... running an airline is more than just choosing aircraft types based on fuel burn and new technology.

 

Sorry to say that, this is a democracy country and we are not living in jail. This is a forum and that's where the aviation enthusiast come together to discuss. I stressed it before that, some malaysian are just not willing to accept criticism, besides what's wrong with individual opinion? I don't think u own MH also...

[Ignatius 4]

That;s why i've also stressed out somewhere that the 5th Generation keyboard warriors are here, based on B787 technology somemore.. fuyoh... , all highly equiped with the latest I know Boeing/Airbus technology .

Let's see some more guys.. "Ting Ting!" Round xx

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

How can we assume that MAS isn't gonna place anymore orders within 15-20 years time?

We all know that MH will eventually place an order for A350s or B787s somewhere in the future. As I mentioned before, it is the only aircraft types that suit MH's capacity and routes and it is the only types that can replace MH's current B772s. But what we are questioning is why does the order has yet to be made, when MH clearly known that they need it and that even if they place the order today, they will only get it beyond 2020? And I am so sure that MH has known about this fact since a few years back. If MH can placed the order of the A380s just because 'SQ ordered some' when sceptics are saying that they don't really need those big aircrafts, why can't MH uses the same 'formula' for this A350s/B787s purchase?

 

It's ridiculous to compare our current fleet with the 2020 fleet. None of us know what they'll have, and what they wont have. We'll just have to wait and see. There's a difference between SHORT-TERM initiatives and LONG TERM initiatives. The new A333s are merely MAS's immediate response to its wide-body fleet renewal, and the dates of entry are certain, but it doesn't mean it's the LAST wide-body order for the next 20 years.

'Buying' an aircraft is never a short term initiative or 'immediate response to its wide body fleet renewal' as you put it. How can a massive capital expenditure of this nature being 'immediate'? Ok, we all know that this 15 A333s purchase is resulted from MH's past mistake of taking so long to come out with a wide body fleet nenewal plan. But again, how on earth such mistake can happenned in a what supposed to be a world class-runned organisation? MH is a flag carrier of Malaysia for god sake not some groceries store!

 

Let's say MAS were to order B787s and A350s today. How sure are we that we'll see those birds on our shores within 1-2 years? No, right? Even if they were to place orders for "state of the art" aircraft, what aircraft is MAS gonna use in the mean time? The same old smarties infected and tired looking birds. Then all of us are gonna complain and whine about it again.

You mentioned how MH can get the A350s in 1 or 2 years time if the order is being made today. Of course it won't happen. But if MH wants the A350s/B787s to be in its fleet by the next 1 or 2 years, orders should have been made in say... 2006? Again, extremely slow decision making is to be blamed? Based on what I can see now, all type of aircrafts in MH's fleet will stay on for a very long time, at least for 15 years. So chances are, this 15 A333s will stay put up until 2026. At that time, should the A350s and B787s programs are not delayed, D7 would have operated their A350s for 10 years (delivery starting in 2016) and SQ would have been operating their A350s for 13 years (delivery starting in 2013) and their B787s for 15 years (delivery starting in 2011 - which is most likely not going to happen). It's a decade difference of technology people! Can MH be certain that the cost of operating this A333s can be much lower that the cost of operating the A350s and B787s by D7 and SQ? I mean seriously? Since when MH become a so 'cost concern' entity more than D7 and SQ, which are better run airlines anyway? And ultimately, how can this costs translate into the passengers experience? Will the airfares on MH be cheaper then? Will the frills that have been taken away being returned back to us?

 

Even if they were to place orders for "state of the art" aircraft, what aircraft is MAS gonna use in the mean time? The same old smarties infected and tired looking birds. Then all of us are gonna complain and whine about it again.

And for all we know, even some people in MH admitted that the decision to omit the current A332s and A333s for the refurbishment (of the seats particularly) which took place in 2003/4 was a huge mistake. For which if it happened otherwise, the current A332s and A333s would be having the same seats as those aboard the B744s and B772s, which are not too shabby to be used for a couple of years more, should MH placed the order of the A350s and B787s much earlier.

 

But the thing is, there's not much that MAS can do atm. Things don't seem to be going their way atm, as far as wide-body a/c is concerned

I really don't buy it that MH 'cannot do much at the moment'. A public listed company that has solid government stakeholding like MH should be able to make timely and strategic decisions.

 

 

Until when MH wants to be seen as this?

Their opponents (Malaysia Airlines) are a sad bunch: they cling onto Skytrax awards like they were the last lifeboats on the Titanic. Always playing catch up, always almost but not quite there, experts at playing second fiddle, they pretend their airline is global but no global alliance wants them. They excuse the old planes by saying it’s really inflight service, nay malaysian hospitality, passengers are after. And they like to relive past glories even when there are no past glories to relive. Caught between an ultra-efficient south and richly-cultured north, the best antidote they can administer is some lame, meaningless slogan for their airline code.

 

And again I would like to emphasise on this very important point.

Spoken to a prominent A.Netter the other day and he said, 'The whole thing is as if MH is not serious about flying at all.'

 

 

That;s why i've also stressed out somewhere that the 5th Generation keyboard warriors are here, based on B787 technology somemore.. fuyoh..., all highly equiped with the latest I know Boeing/Airbus technology.

Let's see some more guys.. "Ting Ting!" Round xx

Some sense of humour is sometimes needed but trolling like that in a discussion thread like this will just make yourself looks bad. I NEVER understood why a 'keyboard warrior' predicate is being accused to some of the forum members here when they are just wanting to share their opinions.

[Azman MN 1]

If average Joe and Jane may not know the difference between A350, 787, A380, A330, 777, 747, DC-10, A300, 732. Why bother to replace A330 with A33E?

 

 

Joe and Jane will for sure notice an old plane because of the very run down interior. But given new looking interior and IFE, they will notice the new plane. Whether that plane is an Airbus or 350, I think they would not notice.

 

From the airline point of view, didn't someone mention that refurbishing those old 330s would cost almost as much as buying the new 330s?

 

I don't want to defend MH's decision. But I believe in striking a balance between passenger needs and business needs. Improvements for passengers must be tangible,i.e., new looking cabins (i.e., fresh upholstery, no coffee stains on the carpets) largish IFE screen, fancy looking remotes. This can be done by updating the interiors every few years, or when the price is right, buying a new aircraft.

 

I used to deal with Virgin regularly (the airline ) in my job. Even met with Sir Richard once as he was hanging out in the CFOs office before my meeting. They told me that there is only so much they can do in the air because the more things they add like bars and massage stools, the less real estate they will have (less space for seats). So in the end, their cabins look like any other good airline's cabin. However, they spend a lot of money on their lounges as the benefit per square feet of space is just so much better. So their strategy is - buy aircraft only as needed and with the best cost, spend money to have the best lounges, not so much money on cabins (to be above average but not the best), and lots of marketing to make people think that their cabins are the best. Marketing their cabins as the best is less expensive than actually making their seats the best!

[Azman MN 1]

 

You mentioned how MH can get the A350s in 1 or 2 years time if the order is being made today. Of course it won't happen. But if MH wants the A350s/B787s to be in its fleet by the next 1 or 2 years, orders should have been made in say... 2006? Again, extremely slow decision making is to be blamed? Based on what I can see now, all type of aircrafts in MH's fleet will stay on for a very long time, at least for 15 years. So chances are, this 15 A333s will stay put up until 2026. At that time, should the A350s and B787s programs are not delayed, D7 would have operated their A350s for 10 years (delivery starting in 2016) and SQ would have been operating their A350s for 13 years (delivery starting in 2013) and their B787s for 15 years (delivery starting in 2011 - which is most likely not going to happen). It's a decade difference of technology people! Can MH be certain that the cost of operating this A333s can be much lower that the cost of operating the A350s and B787s by D7 and SQ? I mean seriously? Since when MH become a so 'cost concern' entity more than D7 and SQ, which are better run airlines anyway? And ultimately, how can this costs translate into the passengers experience? Will the airfares on MH be cheaper then? Will the frills that have been taken away being returned back to us?

 

 

Good post. Enthusiast that I am, I still can't really tell the difference between the markets that the 350, 330 and 787 are serving. Am I right that the 330 will serve different markets compared to the other 2? So the 330 replaces the 330, and the 787 and 350 should be the replacement for the 772?

 

Another interesting point: Swiss are still taking delivery of the A330s. The last ones will be delivered by the end of 2010 I think. But boy are they plugging the new cabins! They will also start refurbishing their 340s. If they use the refurbished planes for say, 5 years, then most of their 340s will already be about 12 years old. I don't think they have even ordered the 350 or 787. So you have to wonder, how long they plan to use the new A330s.... and no one is questioning their decision to go ahead with the 340 refurbishment even though the 350 and 787 are "soon" to be available.

[KK Lee 5]

UA ordered 25 numbers of 787 and A350 in December 09, deliveries are expected between 2016 and 2019. Why MH need to wait beyond 2020?

 

On many regional routes (e.g. BKK, MNL, HAN, SGN, etc), MH 734 is often over booked and A333 is over capacity, it is acceptabel that MH don’t match their aircraft with demand?

 

MH 772 and 744 are too large for daily service to EUR (e.g. FRA) and USA (e.g. LAX), it is acceptable for MH to have low yield and likely losses on these routes?

 

Edited January 19, 2010 by KK Lee

[C.Foo 3]

And what they need is the 350 or 787

 

 

Joe and Jane will for sure notice an old plane because of the very run down interior. But given new looking interior and IFE, they will notice the new plane. Whether that plane is an Airbus or 350, I think they would not notice.

 

From the airline point of view, didn't someone mention that refurbishing those old 330s would cost almost as much as buying the new 330s?

 

I don't want to defend MH's decision. But I believe in striking a balance between passenger needs and business needs. Improvements for passengers must be tangible,i.e., new looking cabins (i.e., fresh upholstery, no coffee stains on the carpets) largish IFE screen, fancy looking remotes. This can be done by updating the interiors every few years, or when the price is right, buying a new aircraft.

 

I used to deal with Virgin regularly (the airline ) in my job. Even met with Sir Richard once as he was hanging out in the CFOs office before my meeting. They told me that there is only so much they can do in the air because the more things they add like bars and massage stools, the less real estate they will have (less space for seats). So in the end, their cabins look like any other good airline's cabin. However, they spend a lot of money on their lounges as the benefit per square feet of space is just so much better. So their strategy is - buy aircraft only as needed and with the best cost, spend money to have the best lounges, not so much money on cabins (to be above average but not the best), and lots of marketing to make people think that their cabins are the best. Marketing their cabins as the best is less expensive than actually making their seats the best!

[Mohd Azizul Ramli 2]

Enthusiast that I am, I still can't really tell the difference between the markets that the 350, 330 and 787 are serving. Am I right that the 330 will serve different markets compared to the other 2? So the 330 replaces the 330, and the 787 and 350 should be the replacement for the 772.

I think ideally, the A350s and B787s can replace all types of MH's current widebody - the A332s, A333s, B772s and B744s.

 

But MH has made it clear that for their fleet renewal program:

 

- A380s to replace the current B744s

- A333Es to replace the current A333s

- B738s to replace the current B734s

- No replacement is announced for the current B772s.

 

The newly purchased 15 A333Es don't have the range to operate some routes that the current B772s are currently serving non-stop. And during the former MD/CEO time, Dato Seri Idris Jala clearly mentioned that MH will operate only 3 types of aircraft in the entire fleet - A380s, B738s and the then an un-announced type of aircraft. I was in the opinion that this one should be the mission of the A350s and/or B787s of different variants of course (to suit the destination to aircraft range and capacity) if MH decided to replace its entire existing A333s and B772s. So why does MH need to buy the 15 A333Es and then buying another type of aircraft when the airline can just buy one type of aircraft which are the A350s and/or B787s to replace both?

[BC Tam 2]

And during the former MD/CEO time, Dato Seri Idris Jala clearly mentioned that MH will operate only 3 types of aircraft in the entire fleet - A380s, B738s and the then an un-announced type of aircraft

Realistically, that was then, this is now

More crucially, it would not be too ethical for Dato IJ nor in his best interest really, to defend/comment on decisions made in the past - you think not ?

[flee 5]

That;s why i've also stressed out somewhere that the 5th Generation keyboard warriors are here, based on B787 technology somemore.. fuyoh... , all highly equiped with the latest I know Boeing/Airbus technology .

Let's see some more guys.. "Ting Ting!" Round xx

Hehehehe, there is no real need for that lah! Whatever we say here is not going to affect what MH does. However, airlines will listen to their fare paying customers. A case in point is D7. Many pax conplained about their narrow and non reclining A333 seats and initially they said that this is the only way to make the economics work. But soon, you will see that most of the discussion about D7 centred around their seats. It has become such a liability that D7 has begun to retrofit new seats, starting with 9M-XXE. Now that is being responsive to customers' feedback.

 

I am sure MH will take note of customer feedback. I think that the A333 replacement is really urgent as customers don't like the current product. MH might also follow SQ's example and make their A333 cabin and seats similar to that of the A380. So most pax will think that the A333 is just the same as the A380's.

 

So lets see if MH's decision is right come 2011.

[Azman MN 1]

 

The newly purchased 15 A333Es don't have the range to operate some routes that the current B772s are currently serving non-stop. And during the former MD/CEO time, Dato Seri Idris Jala clearly mentioned that MH will operate only 3 types of aircraft in the entire fleet - A380s, B738s and the then an un-announced type of aircraft. I was in the opinion that this one should be the mission of the A350s and/or B787s of different variants of course (to suit the destination to aircraft range and capacity) if MH decided to replace its entire existing A333s and B772s. So why does MH need to buy the 15 A333Es and then buying another type of aircraft when the airline can just buy one type of aircraft which are the A350s and/or B787s to replace both?

 

So we are back to this:

- they desperately need to update the 330s, and it is more cost-effective to buy new ones.

- for the next 5-8 years however, they can't get any 350s or 787s, but beyond that it is widely available. Thus there is no rush to place the order because they have anyway missed the boat. Waiting another 3 years to order will only delay the delivery by 1 year or so.

- in the mean time, order the A330 because they prob. got a good deal from Airbus as compensation anyway.

 

Yeah, they should have placed the order in 2006... but they have missed the boat... they screwed up which leaves them with no other choice.Seems logical to me.

[BC Tam 2]

- in the mean time, order the A330 because they prob. got a good deal from Airbus as compensation anyway.

Don't bet your bottom dollar on that though. Bear in mind there is 9M-NAA hopping around now

Edited January 19, 2010 by BC Tam

[Wilson Kook 0]

 

The newly purchased 15 A333Es don't have the range to operate some routes that the current B772s are currently serving non-stop. And during the former MD/CEO time, Dato Seri Idris Jala clearly mentioned that MH will operate only 3 types of aircraft in the entire fleet - A380s, B738s and the then an un-announced type of aircraft. I was in the opinion that this one should be the mission of the A350s and/or B787s of different variants of course (to suit the destination to aircraft range and capacity) if MH decided to replace its entire existing A333s and B772s. So why does MH need to buy the 15 A333Es and then buying another type of aircraft when the airline can just buy one type of aircraft which are the A350s and/or B787s to replace both?

 

Not everyone is willing to put up with the existing A333s for another 10-15 years?

I know MAS should have placed an order for A350s and 787s way back, and maybe they would've received those earlier.

 

But that can't be done now, whether we like or or not.

 

And this (15 x brand new A33Es) is probably the BEST SHORT-TERM (short-term in a sense that we wont wait 20 years before we see changes in results) alternative which can be taken. At least for now.

 

I don't think I wanna fly in those fault bound & tired-looking A333s for another 10-15 years.

 

We can talk about what MAS COULD have done in the past, but it's too late now.

No point crying over spilt milk.

 

Edited January 20, 2010 by Wilson Kook

[KK Lee 5]

From 2011 til 2016, MH fleet will include 734, 738, A333, A33E, 772, 744 and A388. With this fleet;

 

Regional will be served by 738 and A333/A33E. A33E is likely to replace 772 on Australian and Japanese routes. On regional, as key to high yield is frequency and schedule, MH could deploy 738 for frequency. However, MH 738 will be competing with AK A320, with marginal service level between MH and AK, MH can only charge limited premium fare over AK. MH could deploy A333/A33E (e.g. on BKK, SGN, HAN, MNL, CGK) for product differentiation from AK or on par with SQ/CX/TG/EK/EY/VN, but MH can either fill A33E with reduced frequency or maintain frequency with low load on A33E.

 

Long haul by 772, 744 and A388. Daily service to LHR, AMS, SYD and MEL will be by 772, 744 or A338. However, on many destinations like FRA, CDG, FCO, LAX daily service is unlikely to justify for 772. Without daily service, MH is unable to attract premium pax and we can expect most EUR routes to be low yield or making losses.

 

Given MH overhead is a lot higher than AK and new equipments depreciation. Unless there is an opportunity for MH to impose ‘surcharge’, MH profit forecast from 2011 til 2016 will be under a lot of pressure.

 

[Kee Hooi Yen 0]

Any chance to acquire B77W from JAL ?

[Radzi 2]

For those asking why MAS ordered or didn't ordered this aircraft and that aircraft in the past 15 years, please answer this question first.

 

How many Chairman, CEO and Managing Directors does MAS have within the same period? And MAS being a GLC, how many Prime Ministers we have during the said period?

[Azman MN 1]

 

However, on many destinations like FRA, CDG, FCO, LAX daily service is unlikely to justify for 772. Without daily service, MH is unable to attract premium pax and we can expect most EUR routes to be low yield or making losses.

 

I see your point. However, I believe that the reason MH cannot fill up a 772 is because of the lack of daily service, not in spite of. My observation is limited to Zurich though - MH used to fly 4x per week... too many empty seats, so reduce to 3x per week... it got worse, so in the end it was 0x per week.

 

For business people, as you mentioned, and also from my experience working in a company where we make about 1000 trips per year to asia-pacific, 4x per week is just not good enough and if they can't get a good share of this high margin business, then it is already difficult to make it work overall (2 main reasons why my colleagues don't fly MH was because firstly the low frequency, and secondly, poor connections out of KUL).

 

For Y pax, a major portion of European passengers are working people and families on holidays. I have a number of friends who could not book MH because they cannot get flights within the dates of their planned time off work. I mean, you get 2-3 weeks off per year and you want to go on holiday, but you can't maximise your holidays due to the flight schedules. One friend who works at a tour agency told me that it was almost impossible to sell MH as part of the package because of frequency. In the end, as I noticed on a lot of MH flights to/from ZRH, it is just full of retirees and university students who have time on their hands...

 

Look at emirates.. they did not tip toe into ZRH. They went daily.. then double daily.