MAS New 15 A330-300X + 4 A330-200 Freighter

[Kee Hooi Yen 0]

I am quite certain that MH did requested for a delay in the delivery of the A380s (remember those time where there were so many negotiations between MH and Airbus before MH finally inked the agreement?) before the production problem at the ramp occured, resulting in a further delay (that is from January 2011 to August 2011). If not, parts of MSN018 which have been built won't be given to MSN045 (SQ's 10th A380 9V-SKJ).

 

I remember I read it somewhere on A.net that one of SQ's A380 indeed is built on MH's frame

 

 

 

 

At least we are all aware that MH is very slow in their fleet renewal program and even until now, the whole fleet renewal program is still incomplete as no plan is in place for the current B772s, which are MH's workhorse for the long haul routes. And for all we know, MH does not operate like SQ (a stellar business entity). This purchase of 15 A333s is a result from the lack of planning previously.

 

 

Precisely. I believe A330 is the best and only choice for MH currently due to the delay in decision making for WB fleet renewal. However, MH still need to face the reality that the WB fleet renewal program is incomplete without the orders for long haul planes and most of these long haul planes (eg B787, A350, A380) need very long lead time for delivery (not sure about A332 & B77W though).

 

I remember IJ did mention MH plans to operate 3 types of aircrafts eventually. Now, they have B738, A380 & A33E. Hope this is not the end of chapter for MH current fleet renewal program.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Kee Hooi Yen

[Kenneth T 0]

It is proven high yield place frequency and schedule as the top criteria when choosing which airline to fly.

 

On many of MH intercontinental routes (e.g. FRA, LAX, EWR, etc), 772 is too big for daily service. On some regional routes, MH demand is bigger than 734 but couldn’t sustain A333 e.g. MLE, MNL, HAN, BKK, SGN, DPS, etc.

 

If MH order 788, MH could support daily service to FRA and secure higher yield, and capture more market share on regional routes.

 

After A33E, MH will need to replace 772. A33E couldn’t substitute 772 to EUR and USA, MH will has no choice but to order A350 or 77W.

 

It is safe to say; in 2016, MH will remain like now, unable to offer daily service to many destinations like FRA, unable to compete with SQ, EK, EY and has low yield on most routes.

 

 

That's the point, the management should accept the fact that they are lack of product development especially in fleet renewal. A333E is only a TEMPORARY solution and by the technology lies behind this aircraft is not considered advanced. The so called improvement on the A333E on is only part of the marketing skill to increase the sales of the aircraft. Besides that, ths aircraft is not made by FULLY COMPOSITE material that make it more fuel efficient.

 

Sad to say that, MH is loosing it's market share to premium airlines like SQ, EK and CX. The fleets that MH is operating is no longer advanced and why don't the management face the fact? Look at SQ, the leased bird on the A333 had been fully refurbished but again that is only a short term measures to cater for some of the operational needs.

[Kenneth T 0]

It is proven high yield place frequency and schedule as the top criteria when choosing which airline to fly.

 

On many of MH intercontinental routes (e.g. FRA, LAX, EWR, etc), 772 is too big for daily service. On some regional routes, MH demand is bigger than 734 but couldn’t sustain A333 e.g. MLE, MNL, HAN, BKK, SGN, DPS, etc.

 

If MH order 788, MH could support daily service to FRA and secure higher yield, and capture more market share on regional routes.

 

After A33E, MH will need to replace 772. A33E couldn’t substitute 772 to EUR and USA, MH will has no choice but to order A350 or 77W.

 

It is safe to say; in 2016, MH will remain like now, unable to offer daily service to many destinations like FRA, unable to compete with SQ, EK, EY and has low yield on most routes.

 

 

That's the point, the management should accept the fact that they are lack of product development especially in fleet renewal. A333E is only a TEMPORARY solution and by the technology lies behind this aircraft is not considered advanced. The so called improvement on the A333E is only part of the marketing skill to increase the sales of the aircraft. Besides that, ths aircraft is not made by FULLY COMPOSITE material that make it more fuel efficient.

 

Sad to say that, MH is loosing it's market share to premium airlines like SQ, EK and CX. The fleets that MH is operating is no longer advanced and why don't the management face the fact? Look at SQ, the leased bird on the A333 had been fully refurbished but again that is only a short term measures to cater for some of the operational needs.

[Kenneth T 0]

It is proven high yield place frequency and schedule as the top criteria when choosing which airline to fly.

 

On many of MH intercontinental routes (e.g. FRA, LAX, EWR, etc), 772 is too big for daily service. On some regional routes, MH demand is bigger than 734 but couldn’t sustain A333 e.g. MLE, MNL, HAN, BKK, SGN, DPS, etc.

 

If MH order 788, MH could support daily service to FRA and secure higher yield, and capture more market share on regional routes.

 

After A33E, MH will need to replace 772. A33E couldn’t substitute 772 to EUR and USA, MH will has no choice but to order A350 or 77W.

 

It is safe to say; in 2016, MH will remain like now, unable to offer daily service to many destinations like FRA, unable to compete with SQ, EK, EY and has low yield on most routes.

 

 

That's the point, the management should accept the fact that they are lack of product development especially in fleet renewal. A333E is only a TEMPORARY solution and by the technology lies behind this aircraft is not considered advanced. The so called improvement on the A333E is only part of the marketing skill to increase the sales of the aircraft. Besides that, ths aircraft is not made by FULLY COMPOSITE material that make it more fuel efficient.

 

Sad to say that, MH is loosing it's market share to premium airlines like SQ, EK and CX. The fleets that MH is operating is no longer advanced and why don't the management face the fact? Look at SQ, the leased bird on the A333 had been fully refurbished but again that is only a short term measures to cater for some of the operational needs.

[Kenneth T 0]

It is proven high yield place frequency and schedule as the top criteria when choosing which airline to fly.

 

On many of MH intercontinental routes (e.g. FRA, LAX, EWR, etc), 772 is too big for daily service. On some regional routes, MH demand is bigger than 734 but couldn’t sustain A333 e.g. MLE, MNL, HAN, BKK, SGN, DPS, etc.

 

If MH order 788, MH could support daily service to FRA and secure higher yield, and capture more market share on regional routes.

 

After A33E, MH will need to replace 772. A33E couldn’t substitute 772 to EUR and USA, MH will has no choice but to order A350 or 77W.

 

It is safe to say; in 2016, MH will remain like now, unable to offer daily service to many destinations like FRA, unable to compete with SQ, EK, EY and has low yield on most routes.

 

 

That's the point, the management should accept the fact that they are lack of product development especially in fleet renewal. A333E is only a TEMPORARY solution and by the technology lies behind this aircraft is not considered advanced. The so called improvement on the A333E is only part of the marketing skill to increase the sales of the aircraft. Besides that, ths aircraft is not made by FULLY COMPOSITE material that make it more fuel efficient.

 

Sad to say that, MH is loosing it's market share to premium airlines like SQ, EK and CX. The fleets that MH is operating is no longer advanced and why don't the management face the fact? Look at SQ, the leased bird on the A333 had been fully refurbished but again that is only a short term measures to cater for some of the operational needs.

[C.Foo 3]

Than why can CHina Eastern is able to get there's by 2014? The 330 is a tempoary situation MH needs the 787 soon as a airline cancels MH take it, because this could me early slots and better brand, I am suprised the did not take the QF bunch that were canceled.

 

 

I agree, MH is only looking at stuff that have reached "emergency" status! They cannot possible postpone the A330 fleet renewal order any more. It is fortunate that Airbus had some delivery slots for 2011 available for them! I think that for the B772 renewal they have already started by buying the newest aircraft from PNB. They now have to decide on what mix of A380/B772/B787/A350 they need. Lets hope that they will make more orders this year and not wait till those old planes fall apart!

[BC Tam 2]

Any idea if a decision on engine choice has been reached ?

The common flavour recently seem to be RR's

[flee 5]

Than why can CHina Eastern is able to get there's by 2014? The 330 is a tempoary situation MH needs the 787 soon as a airline cancels MH take it, because this could me early slots and better brand, I am suprised the did not take the QF bunch that were canceled.

I believe that some compensation from Airbus for the A380 delays is involved - so this A333 deal could have saved MH a ton of money. That will be good for the bottom line!

[Kenneth T 0]

Than why can CHina Eastern is able to get there's by 2014? The 330 is a tempoary situation MH needs the 787 soon as a airline cancels MH take it, because this could me early slots and better brand, I am suprised the did not take the QF bunch that were canceled.

 

Exactly...but MH is not taking advantage of the cancellation slots by some of the airlines instead they decided to proceed with the A333s.

[Cheng Long 0]

Exactly...but MH is not taking advantage of the cancellation slots by some of the airlines instead they decided to proceed with the A333s.

 

Is it common for airlines to do that? Guess they will need to pay a fair bit to jump queue.

[Kenneth T 0]

Is it common for airlines to do that? Guess they will need to pay a fair bit to jump queue.

 

Well, if those airline cancel such order, MH can take advantage of that...

[Ahmad M 1]

Is it really that simple?

[Cheng Long 0]

Well, if those airline cancel such order, MH can take advantage of that...

 

Guess it's possible but one would think that they will need to pay more to get early slots at such a late time. Otherwise it won't be fair to other airlines who committed early.

[C.Foo 3]

THIS DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION! So woudn't MH get discount if they order 350-800 which is close to the 787-9 It's better to move foward than to fly back in time.

 

 

I believe that some compensation from Airbus for the A380 delays is involved - so this A333 deal could have saved MH a ton of money. That will be good for the bottom line!

 

But if its like QF that cancelled their 15 787's they can jump in

 

 

Guess it's possible but one would think that they will need to pay more to get early slots at such a late time. Otherwise it won't be fair to other airlines who committed early.

[Kenneth T 0]

THIS DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION! So woudn't MH get discount if they order 350-800 which is close to the 787-9 It's better to move foward than to fly back in time.

 

Exactly, that's the point but MH is moving back in time. Let's not be surprise since this is Malaysia, everything seems slow. Let's start with our national car, one model last for than 10 years. Sad to say that, some Malaysian are now willing to accept suggestion from other parties, they view such thing as criticism and not willing to listen.

[C.Foo 3]

More like the movie series Back To The Future, If we are talking Airbus compensation why no 350

 

Exactly, that's the point but MH is moving back in time. Let's not be surprise since this is Malaysia, everything seems slow. Let's start with our national car, one model last for than 10 years. Sad to say that, some Malaysian are now willing to accept suggestion from other parties, they view such thing as criticism and not willing to listen.

[flee 5]

THIS DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION! So woudn't MH get discount if they order 350-800 which is close to the 787-9 It's better to move foward than to fly back in time.

 

But if its like QF that cancelled their 15 787's they can jump in

And when will MH get these paper aeroplanes if they ordered them now? D7 ordered the A350 last year and first deliveries will only commence in 2016, assuming that there are no delays to the project schedule. Similarly, the B787 may also experience further delivery delays. These new tech aircraft are the first of their kind - so we are threading in the dark here and there may still be unforeseen problems coming up. Lets see what the B787 certification testing show up...

 

As for leasing A333s from the market, it is not as easy as you guys think. There is a shortage of aircraft and lease rates are high. Besides, leasing is now no longer part of the MH policy. That is why many of us here are of the opinion that based on the current info and MH's requirements, the A333 order is the correct decision. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

 

No doubt, MH will need to order more new wide bodies in the near future - their fleet renewal plans are by no means complete at the moment.

[flee 5]

Exactly, that's the point but MH is moving back in time. Let's not be surprise since this is Malaysia, everything seems slow. Let's start with our national car, one model last for than 10 years. Sad to say that, some Malaysian are now willing to accept suggestion from other parties, they view such thing as criticism and not willing to listen.

Unfortunately, MH is paying for the mistakes of the past. The present management has to make decisions based on current facts and the current business environment. Even well run airlines like SQ faced severe challenges last year and their financial position is not as good as before.

 

Most taxpayers would not like to see MH in the red again as they (via the govt.) will have to bail them out again. In terms of risk, the tried and tested A333 will do for now. This aircraft will definitely be superior to the old fleet. When the B787/A350 has some real world operational numbers and more definite delivery slots, it would be easier for MH to evaluate the aircraft. By then the MH management will also be able to see what they need for their future plans.

[C.Foo 3]

Yeah the Myvi is probly going to be for 10 years without ESP or decient bags.

 

FLEE WHY CAN CHINA EASTERN GET THERES BY 2014?

 

Exactly, that's the point but MH is moving back in time. Let's not be surprise since this is Malaysia, everything seems slow. Let's start with our national car, one model last for than 10 years. Sad to say that, some Malaysian are now willing to accept suggestion from other parties, they view such thing as criticism and not willing to listen.

[KK Lee 5]

Unfortunately, MH is paying for the mistakes of the past. The present management has to make decisions based on current facts and the current business environment. Even well run airlines like SQ faced severe challenges last year and their financial position is not as good as before.

 

Most taxpayers would not like to see MH in the red again as they (via the govt.) will have to bail them out again. In terms of risk, the tried and tested A333 will do for now. This aircraft will definitely be superior to the old fleet. When the B787/A350 has some real world operational numbers and more definite delivery slots, it would be easier for MH to evaluate the aircraft. By then the MH management will also be able to see what they need for their future plans.

 

Since we have established that with MH 734/A333/772 could not offer frequency to many destinations, and aircraft is either too big or too small on some regional routes. How could MH attract high yield pax, more market share and be profitable?

 

Like most business, decision made today may take years to bear fruits. In this challenging and ever changing environment, anticipation of future is critical to business survival. If decision is based on past experience and current environment, current business model is most likely will not compatible and profitable in the future.

 

[C.Foo 3]

Leasing 757/767 or Buy 739er or 321

 

Since we have established that with MH 734/A333/772 could not offer frequency to many destinations, and aircraft is either too big or too small on some regional routes. How could MH attract high yield pax, more market share and be profitable?

 

Like most business, decision made today may take years to bear fruits. In this challenging and ever changing environment, anticipation of future is critical to business survival. If decision is based on past experience and current environment, current business model is most likely will not compatible and profitable in the future.

 

[flee 5]

FLEE WHY CAN CHINA EASTERN GET THERES BY 2014?

There is no need to shout!

 

As you should know, aircraft purchasing contracts are seldom (if ever) disclosed to the public. So only China Eastern can tell us why they can get their planes in 2014 and why MH or D7 can't. Many factors are involved, so your guess is as good as mine!

 

I know you anti A333 guys are itching for MH to get onboard new tech aircraft. However, you should really be looking at how MH is run. History has shown us that MH is seldom on the leading edge. When Malaysia-Singapore Airlines split up MH took over the F-27, Twin Otters, B737s etc. while SQ took the B707s. So you can see that MH is operating to the Malaysian govt. agenda and is run like a civil service.

 

As someone has said, we cannot live in denial all the time. Like it or not, MH is not in the Top 10 world airlines list unless a fully professional management is in charge, free from govt. interference. Currently it is not capable of making decisions that have long lead times for results. They are doing crisis management, not long term strategic management!

[Kenneth T 0]

Unfortunately, MH is paying for the mistakes of the past. The present management has to make decisions based on current facts and the current business environment. Even well run airlines like SQ faced severe challenges last year and their financial position is not as good as before.

 

Most taxpayers would not like to see MH in the red again as they (via the govt.) will have to bail them out again. In terms of risk, the tried and tested A333 will do for now. This aircraft will definitely be superior to the old fleet. When the B787/A350 has some real world operational numbers and more definite delivery slots, it would be easier for MH to evaluate the aircraft. By then the MH management will also be able to see what they need for their future plans.

 

Failure to accept the fact that A333s is no longer an advanced aircraft. AirAsia X will be flying the world's most advanced A350s. I wonder how MH promote this A333s by then wherelse the regional airlines are flying with more superior aircraft such as the B787s and A350s. Any advertisement by then may have little effect on consumer awareness since the birds are nothing new by then.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Kenneth T

[BC Tam 2]

I wonder how MH promote this A333s by then wherelse the regional airlines are flying with more superior aircraft such as the B787s and A350s. Any advertisement by then may have little effect on consumer awareness since the birds are nothing new by then.

It's ok lah, don't think there is an absolute need to make a song and dance about it each time a new bird joins the fleet. Eg. A333 entry into SQ's fleet - "quiet elegance" would be my impression (though admittedly I have yet to sample SQ's A333's onboard) Furthermore, what the typical pax (as opposed to us aviation nitpickers) appreciates would be biased more towards creature comforts and (to lesser extent) cheaper fares

 

 

I know you anti A333 guys are itching for MH to get onboard new tech aircraft. However, you should really be looking at how MH is run. ..... So you can see that MH is operating to the Malaysian govt. agenda and is run like a civil service

I think you just about nailed it there !

If I may, I'll venture to say that MH has long ago been been managed more as a gravy train rather than a customer-oriented flying airline

 

 

Currently it is not capable of making decisions that have long lead times for results. They are doing crisis management, not long term strategic management!

Not entirely beyond expectation, since the decision makers themselves are probably uncertain of their own long term involvement within the organization. I would not be a bit surprised if the "make hay while the sun shines" culture has taken hold at MH

Edited January 15, 2010 by BC Tam

[Kenneth T 0]

It's ok lah, don't think there is an absolute need to make a song and dance about it each time a new bird joins the fleet. Eg. A333 entry into SQ's fleet - "quiet elegance" would be my impression (though admittedly I have yet to sample SQ's A333's onboard) Furthermore, what the typical pax (as opposed to us aviation nitpickers) appreciates would be biased more towards creature comforts and (to lesser extent) cheaper fares

 

 

Well, no surprise that AK will be advertising the new A350s leaving MH nothing to promote.