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Mohd Azizul Ramli

MAS New 15 A330-300X + 4 A330-200 Freighter

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They are getting brand new A333E in 2011. That's only next year! That's the best thing they could do at this time as their current fleet sorely needs to be replaced.

 

Of course, they will need to purchase 787/A350 for the longer term in the future.. But now they are playing safe. Understandably, considering their financial position, they can't afford to take too much risks. The A333E has proven itself to be reliable, it's tried and tested. The 787/A350, on the other hand, are not proven. They can turn out to be another blunder like the A380 and costing heaps of money.

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I think you are exhadurating. They can take advantage of a 787 cancellation.

 

So what do you want them to do? Order the 787/A350 and get it in 2025 or something?

 

Plus SQ will start sending 330's to Morjave.

 

 

By the time MH gets the 330's they will be considered inefficent and usless

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Guess you can't fault them for buying the A333E. It's a safe and sensible decision for their current situation. Personally I look forward to their new planes next year. More reasons to fly with MAS back to Malaysia and the rest of the world.

 

Not ordering the 787/A350 is a different matter. They should also place order for them in the near future. Not doing so will cause headache in the longer term. So there should be further chapters coming in their WB renewal. Hope it won't be too long.

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I think you are exhadurating. They can take advantage of a 787 cancellation.

 

 

 

Plus SQ will start sending 330's to Morjave.

 

I think the word you are looking here is exaggerating.

The only cancelations we have seen so far is more like transfering from one type to another - example ANA's 783 to 788s.

 

Besides, Airbus already saying that the 330s will be flying well into 2020 and beyond.

When we get our A330 NEXT YEAR, it will only be two years younger than SQ's current A330s

Also, its OUR A330s that needs to be sent to the Mojave desert or be leased/sold to other airlines.

 

They are getting brand new A333E in 2011. That's only next year! That's the best thing they could do at this time as their current fleet sorely needs to be replaced.

 

Of course, they will need to purchase 787/A350 for the longer term in the future.. But now they are playing safe. Understandably, considering their financial position, they can't afford to take too much risks. The A333E has proven itself to be reliable, it's tried and tested. The 787/A350, on the other hand, are not proven. They can turn out to be another blunder like the A380 and costing heaps of money.

 

Precisely. In economics sense, its much more favourable to get something new soon to replace what we have than queue up for something that is coming in...what, 2018-19? By then MAS's fleet is already 20+ year old.

 

I'd wont say the A380 is a blunder, but its teething problem IS quite severe.

 

One thing though - If MAS would buy 787/350 - which one will it be?

the 788 or they will wait for the 789?

for the 350 would they go for the 800 (to replace the 332s) or the 900 or even the 1000?

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Sorry for poor spelling, but you have forgot S7, lcal and QF. S7 cancelled all their 787-8 all 15 LCAL cancelled 3 QF cancelled all 787-8's

 

 

 

I think the word you are looking here is exaggerating.

The only cancelations we have seen so far is more like transfering from one type to another - example ANA's 783 to 788s.

 

Besides, Airbus already saying that the 330s will be flying well into 2020 and beyond.

When we get our A330 NEXT YEAR, it will only be two years younger than SQ's current A330s

Also, its OUR A330s that needs to be sent to the Mojave desert or be leased/sold to other airlines.

 

 

 

Precisely. In economics sense, its much more favourable to get something new soon to replace what we have than queue up for something that is coming in...what, 2018-19? By then MAS's fleet is already 20+ year old.

 

I'd wont say the A380 is a blunder, but its teething problem IS quite severe.

 

One thing though - If MAS would buy 787/350 - which one will it be?

the 788 or they will wait for the 789?

for the 350 would they go for the 800 (to replace the 332s) or the 900 or even the 1000?

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So what do you want them to do? Order the 787/A350 and get it in 2025 or something?

 

 

Last major 787 order; UA ordered 25 numbers of 787 and A350 in December 09, deliveries are expected between 2016 and 2019.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/business/global/09air.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=united%20order%20787&st=cse

 

If MH request, believe earlier 787 delivery slot is avialable e.g. 2014/15.

 

Besides, Airbus already saying that the 330s will be flying well into 2020 and beyond.

When we get our A330 NEXT YEAR, it will only be two years younger than SQ's current A330s

Also, its OUR A330s that needs to be sent to the Mojave desert or be leased/sold to other airlines.

 

SQ A33E are leased and will be replaced by 787 and A350. But MH is unlikely to replace A33E until 2021 the earliest.

 

No doubt, A330, A300, 757, 767, DC-10, DC-3 will be flying well into 2020 and beyond.

 

:drinks:

Edited by KK Lee

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Last major 787 order; UA ordered 25 numbers of 787 and A350 in December 09, deliveries are expected between 2016 and 2019.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/business/global/09air.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=united%20order%20787&st=cse

 

If MH request, believe earlier 787 delivery slot is avialable e.g. 2014/15.

 

 

 

SQ A33E are leased and will be replaced by 787 and A350. But MH is unlikely to replace A33E until 2021 the earliest.

 

No doubt, A330, A300, 757, 767, DC-10, DC-3 will be flying well into 2020 and beyond.

 

:drinks:

 

At least by 2021, we still have airframes which are only 10 years old, rather than 20+ years old.

Also, what MAS SHOULD do is the purchase of both types of planes anyway to addon to the A33Es and 738s.

Of course, MAS is possibly waiting in the wings for a 777 replacement plane announcement so.. :shrugs:

 

About leasing - did MAS announced that the new A33Es are owned or leased?

 

Also, we should remember that MAS is helping in building the dreamliner - well, ex-MAS plane that is. :)

Edited by Sharil Abdul Rahman

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At least by 2021, we still have airframes which are only 10 years old, rather than 20+ years old.

Also, what MAS SHOULD do is the purchase of both types of planes anyway to addon to the A33Es and 738s.

Of course, MAS is possibly waiting in the wings for a 777 replacement plane announcement so.. :shrugs:

 

About leasing - did MAS announced that the new A33Es are owned or leased?

 

Also, we should remember that MAS is helping in building the dreamliner - well, ex-MAS plane that is. :)

 

 

The world is flat. Before MH received the last of A33E in 2016, MH major competitors will be operating the next generation aircraft (787/A350) which are 15% cheaper operation cost. Wonder how could MH be competitive?

 

Given the nature of order, it is almost certain MH will own A33E.

 

:drinks:

Edited by KK Lee

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About leasing - did MAS announced that the new A33Es are owned or leased?

Given the nature of order, it is almost certain MH will own A33E.

Yes, I think the news article mentioned that MH is now wanting to own more aircrafts (up to 66 by the next couple of years if I am not mistaken) rather than leasing it from PMB.

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Last major 787 order; UA ordered 25 numbers of 787 and A350 in December 09, deliveries are expected between 2016 and 2019.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/business/global/09air.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=united%20order%20787&st=cse

 

If MH request, believe earlier 787 delivery slot is avialable e.g. 2014/15.

 

 

 

SQ A33E are leased and will be replaced by 787 and A350. But MH is unlikely to replace A33E until 2021 the earliest.

 

No doubt, A330, A300, 757, 767, DC-10, DC-3 will be flying well into 2020 and beyond.

 

:drinks:

 

MH never replace it's fleet that earlier....that's sound impossible

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If the age of MH A333 is the reason and urgency to be replaced by A33E. What about 744 and 772? 744 is older than A333 and by 2016, 772 will be as old as A333 currently. As A33E don’t have the range to replace 772 to EUR, MH to have another widebody type?

 

:drinks:

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If the age of MH A333 is the reason and urgency to be replaced by A33E. What about 744 and 772? 744 is older than A333 and by 2016, 772 will be as old as A333 currently. As A33E don’t have the range to replace 772 to EUR, MH to have another widebody type?

 

:drinks:

 

You got the point. The current situation seems likely that the future Malaysia skies dominated by European manufactured aircraft...wonder why?

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If MAS is an important client to Boeing, I am pretty sure Boeing can do something about delivery slots and time.

Just bloody increase the producton rate per month.

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If MAS is an important client to Boeing, I am pretty sure Boeing can do something about delivery slots and time.

Just bloody increase the producton rate per month.

 

Boeing is still tweaking their production line as we speak. They are only going to assemble the first ANA 787 after, what, two years off from the original plan?

 

Kenneth: is it wrong to have only european aircrafts in MAS's fleet?

 

KKLee: The A380 is coming the end of next year, with an *purported* rate of one every month, so the 744 will have some breathing room.

As for the 772s, Who knows what is in store in the next couple of years? For all we know, there is a 77W offer to MAS that is behind close doors.

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That will mean when MH recieve there 330's, UA will be reciveing 787's and be ahead 2 years.

 

Last major 787 order; UA ordered 25 numbers of 787 and A350 in December 09, deliveries are expected between 2016 and 2019.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/business/global/09air.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=united%20order%20787&st=cse

 

If MH request, believe earlier 787 delivery slot is avialable e.g. 2014/15.

 

 

 

SQ A33E are leased and will be replaced by 787 and A350. But MH is unlikely to replace A33E until 2021 the earliest.

 

No doubt, A330, A300, 757, 767, DC-10, DC-3 will be flying well into 2020 and beyond.

 

:drinks:

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If MAS is an important client to Boeing, I am pretty sure Boeing can do something about delivery slots and time.

Just bloody increase the producton rate per month.

The B787 is a new aircraft and Boeing will need some time to ramp up its production. Remember the B787 is the first aircraft that Boeing is manufacturing that has so many sub cons from all over the world!

 

Airbus is already having big headaches with their A380 production - that was why they struggled to deliver the planned number of aircraft to their customers. I would say that it would be easier for Airbus to increase A330 production than to do the same for the A380!

 

Similarly, I am sure Boeing will find it easier to increase B737/777 than to do that with the B787. MH does not need to worry too much about the B744 replacements as all their new A380s will be here by 2012. So they just need to think about replacing the older B772s - perhaps Boeing has already given them an offer to think about. Or they may be thinking about the A350s. Unfortunately the A350 is still a paper aeroplane....

 

That will mean when MH recieve there 330's, UA will be reciveing 787's and be ahead 2 years.

UAL does not compete directly with MH, so it is not relevant. That is why MH is not too bothered because its main competitors will be SQ/TG/CX etc. And if MH really needs B787s urgently in future, there is also the lease option. I think MH just wants to see some real life operational numbers (to prove the theoretical calculations that Boeing supplies is correct) before making any decisions.

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As for the 772s, Who knows what is in store in the next couple of years? For all we know, there is a 77W offer to MAS that is behind close doors.

 

Given who are the MH decision makers, it won’t be a surprise that MH will order 77W soon.

 

UAL does not compete directly with MH, so it is not relevant. That is why MH is not too bothered because its main competitors will be SQ/TG/CX etc. And if MH really needs B787s urgently in future, there is also the lease option. I think MH just wants to see some real life operational numbers (to prove the theoretical calculations that Boeing supplies is correct) before making any decisions.

 

What about VN, EK, EY, SQ?

 

Unless MH is to consider to buy from Russian or Chinese, MH will accept whatever real life operational numbers from Boeing or Airbus. Does MH has a choice?

 

 

The B787 is a new aircraft and Boeing will need some time to ramp up its production. Remember the B787 is the first aircraft that Boeing is manufacturing that has so many sub cons from all over the world!

 

Airbus is already having big headaches with their A380 production - that was why they struggled to deliver the planned number of aircraft to their customers. I would say that it would be easier for Airbus to increase A330 production than to do the same for the A380!

 

Boeing subcontractors are all over the places e.g. ACM in Bukit Kayu Hitam produce components for 777. The major difference between 787 and previous practice is Boeing insisted major subcontractors to share the commercial risks e.g. R&D.

 

Boeing is planning to ramp up 787 production rate in 2 years time.

 

:drinks:

Edited by KK Lee

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What about VN, EK, EY, SQ?

 

Unless MH is to consider to buy from Russian or Chinese, MH will accept whatever real life operational numbers from Boeing or Airbus. Does MH has a choice?

As I have said earlier in this thread, MH requires the new aircraft yesterday, not tomorrow, due to their tardy fleet replacement decisions. The A333 is available now and it is proven. The B787 has not started commercial operations yet, so Boeing cannot supply any real life numbers, only theoretical ones.

 

If MH ordered the B787 to replace the current A330s they will need to wait a long time. It also does not make too much sense to refurbish the old A330s if the cost of new ones is only a little higher. Refurbishing old planes also means removing them from service. MH probably does not have any spare planes to use if old planes are taken out for refurbishment. The new A333s will also have lower operational costs, plus longer airframe life compared to the old refurbished ones.

 

Boeing is planning to ramp up 787 production rate in 2 years time.

Boeing had also planned to deliver the first ANA plane in May 2008. So plans, especially for new and unproven aircraft can go awry.

 

MH cannot afford delays when it came to the A330 replacements. So they chose the safe route, to replace it with something that is available and proven.

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As I have said earlier in this thread, MH requires the new aircraft yesterday, not tomorrow, due to their tardy fleet replacement decisions. The A333 is available now and it is proven. The B787 has not started commercial operations yet, so Boeing cannot supply any real life numbers, only theoretical ones.

 

If MH ordered the B787 to replace the current A330s they will need to wait a long time. It also does not make too much sense to refurbish the old A330s if the cost of new ones is only a little higher. Refurbishing old planes also means removing them from service. MH probably does not have any spare planes to use if old planes are taken out for refurbishment. The new A333s will also have lower operational costs, plus longer airframe life compared to the old refurbished ones.

 

 

Boeing had also planned to deliver the first ANA plane in May 2008. So plans, especially for new and unproven aircraft can go awry.

 

MH cannot afford delays when it came to the A330 replacements. So they chose the safe route, to replace it with something that is available and proven.

 

Instead of outright ownership, what about lease A33E before taking delivery of 787/A350 like SQ?

 

:drinks:

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Instead of outright ownership, what about lease A33E before taking delivery of 787/A350 like SQ?

 

:drinks:

 

They did say that they want to try and own at least 1/3rd of the planes in the fleet, and of course they want to have the newest for themselves la.:)

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But they have 380's why 77w they have the lasiest 744 fleet. Add BI as competiton for Kangaroo Route

 

 

Given who are the MH decision makers, it won’t be a surprise that MH will order 77W soon.

 

 

 

What about VN, EK, EY, SQ?

 

Unless MH is to consider to buy from Russian or Chinese, MH will accept whatever real life operational numbers from Boeing or Airbus. Does MH has a choice?

 

 

 

 

Boeing subcontractors are all over the places e.g. ACM in Bukit Kayu Hitam produce components for 777. The major difference between 787 and previous practice is Boeing insisted major subcontractors to share the commercial risks e.g. R&D.

 

Boeing is planning to ramp up 787 production rate in 2 years time.

 

:drinks:

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But they have 380's why 77w they have the lasiest 744 fleet. Add BI as competiton for Kangaroo Route

Maybe that is why they are not too bothered about making a decision yet. Let the new A380's and A333's come into the fleet first and then see what gaps need to be plugged later on.

 

It is not easy for a GLC like MH to plan super long term because their political masters change and priorities change. The A380 is an example - many people here have suggested that MH does not need it. But the Malaysian govt. ordered it (via PNB) so that it does not lose face to SQ and TG. ;)

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If MH made a mistake, is Virgin Atlantic doing the same thing too?

 

PARIS, Jan 11 (Reuters) - Virgin Atlantic Airways [VA.Ul] confirmed an order for ten Airbus A330 aircraft, European planemaker Airbus (EAD.PA) said on Monday.

 

Virgin Atlantic has bought six A330-300 long-range aircraft from Airbus, and is leasing a further four from AerCap.

 

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNLDE60A1A720100111?rpc=44

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If MH made a mistake, is Virgin Atlantic doing the same thing too?

 

The 6 number of A33E is a order conversion from A346, these A33E are interim solution before they receive 787. VS has ordered 30 numbers of 787.

 

Similarly, ANA, the 787 launch customer has ordered 5 number of 767-300ER recently as a stop gap before they receive all 55 787 by 2017.

 

The difference between VS, NH and MH is they will be operating next generation planes by the time MH receive the last of A33E.

 

:drinks:

Edited by KK Lee

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Instead of outright ownership, what about lease A33E before taking delivery of 787/A350 like SQ?

 

:drinks:

 

In my opinion, a better solution is to lease these A33E for short period of time while waiting for the B787 and A350s

 

Boeing is still tweaking their production line as we speak. They are only going to assemble the first ANA 787 after, what, two years off from the original plan?

 

Kenneth: is it wrong to have only european aircrafts in MAS's fleet?

 

KKLee: The A380 is coming the end of next year, with an *purported* rate of one every month, so the 744 will have some breathing room.

As for the 772s, Who knows what is in store in the next couple of years? For all we know, there is a 77W offer to MAS that is behind close doors.

 

It's not wrong...and i had never pointed such word. It's just a curiousity what's the reason behind.

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