Airbus to help Emirates pilots sleep after crews find A380 'too quiet'

[Syed A Ridhwan 0]

Thanks to Suhaimi for pointing this out

 

Airbus to help Emirates pilots sleep after crews find A380 'too quiet'

 

Emirates Airbus A380 pilots are complaining that they cannot sleep in their crew-rest area in the aft main cabin because the aircraft is too quiet.

 

The pilots say that the lack of engine noise in the A380's cabin compared with other long-haul airliners means they are constantly disturbed by sounds created by passengers, such as crying babies, flushing vacuum toilets and call bells. Passengers also mistake the rest area for a lavatory, and pull the door handle.

 

The Dubai-based carrier has asked Airbus for a solution that does not involve substantially adding weight, which rules out insulating the walls of the rest area, situated at the rear of the all-economy main deck, says Emirates senior vice-president, fleet, Capt Ed Davidson.

 

"We are expecting to hear back from them by the middle of the month," says Davidson, who admits that the airframer has "overdelivered" on its noise promises on the airline's Engine Alliance GP7200-powered A380s. One option could be installing lightweight generators to create ambient noise.

 

"We're getting a lot of complaints. It's not something we expected," says Davidson. "On our other aircraft, the engines drown out the cabin noise. [On the A380] the pilots sleep with earplugs but the cabin noise goes straight through them."

 

Emirates is the only A380 operator so far to have situated the crew-rest areas at the rear of the main deck. It did not opt for Airbus' standard option of locating the pilots' compartment behind the cockpit as it would have compromised the design of the airline's upper deck first-class cabin, while the alternative location of the cargo hold was rejected as it thought crew would find it "claustrophobic".

 

Source

 

LOL!

[C.Lim 0]

Wow, that is like something really ridiculous. LOL

[Jen Hau 0]

Lol, Human always find some excuses on any situation

[Yusoff 1]

That means the A380 is so damn quiet. Too quiet until pilots are easily disturbed by sounds made by the pax..

 

Hmm.. If that's so, since pilots are used to sleep with the sound of the roaring engines, Airbus or the airlines itself may want to install speakers or a music player playing the 'soothing' engine sound or maybe other relaxing music...

Just my 2 cents...

[Min 6]

SIA got no complaint at all.. emirates are way too fussy. if im from airbus, i will give the answer back saying 'well, you shoulda decide and carefully considering before purchase the a/c' its not airbus fault. emirates should really think of the outcome as everyone know a380 sooo quiet.

[LeeTZ 1]

LOL.....

 

maybe can listen to musics?

 

 

[Ashmil Abd Ghani 0]

well, you shoulda decide and carefully considering before purchase the a/c' its not airbus fault.

 

Sorry for my ignorance..Emm even you been appointed as Airbus A380 saler,engineer even CEO of Airbus SAS you should not react on that way..Be nice to customer and customer always right (not always) also professional..Problem can be fixed..

 

As told by EY manager,,it something they never know will happen,,so let them work on it..

 

We always pay on what we use

Edited December 5, 2008 by Ashmil Abd Ghani

[Ahmad M 1]

SIA got no complaint at all.. emirates are way too fussy. if im from airbus, i will give the answer back saying 'well, you shoulda decide and carefully considering before purchase the a/c' its not airbus fault. emirates should really think of the outcome as everyone know a380 sooo quiet.

 

 

SIA may have opted for a different location for the crew bunk so they probably didn't have the same problem. Anyways EK is the A380 biggest customer so Airbus would surely try to please them any way they can. Furthermore I don't think they are being fussy as the inflight rest is a very important part of long haul ops so they have the right to ask for the best possible condition for them to take it.

 

[Gavin Andrew David 6]

Sorry for my ignorance..Emm even you been appointed as Airbus A380 saler,engineer even CEO of Airbus SAS you should not react on that way..Be nice to customer and customer always right (not always) also professional..Problem can be fixed..

 

As told by EY manager,,it something they never know will happen,,so let them work on it..

 

We always pay on what we use

 

Airbus has a design , EK wants to change it , you live with what you get . Simple as that .

 

Airbus will just respond by saying , we can change , provide the dollars , and we'll do something for you

[KC Sim 2]

First . . . moisture from the shower spa in First Class cabin short-circuited the plane and grounded it.

 

Now . . . where Emirates has located the crew rest area, it is too quiet . . . and crew cannot sleep due to passengers-generated noise.

 

This is beginning to test the fine line between being fussy and ridiculous . . . note that both are a result of customisation by Emirates. You wonder what is next. Perhaps Airbus should specify that the crew rest area is located HERE . . . and you design your cabin around this.

 

KC Sim

[BC Tam 2]

Perhaps Airbus should specify that the crew rest area is located HERE . . . and you design your cabin around this.

That would be the most sensible thing to do, though it will take someone with oversized balls (or the female equivalent ) to even suggest that to any of one's customers. Certainly not an assertion one would (wisely ?) put across to one's biggest customer by far in a programme that has yet to recover all the $$$ sunk in, particularly so with the 'oh so depressing' near term outlook for the industry

 

They (the airlines) are, after all, supposed to be party to the envelope expansion effort in redefining luxury of air travel via the dugong route

(or perhaps I've been overly sold on A's sales pitch )

[Nik H. 3]

Great comments from non pilots.

 

Guess you guys have never needed to keep awake when you're sleepy, or need to sleep when you're not so you won't be sleepy when you need to keep awake later. I don't think the Pilots are fussy. They are not petty about this sort of thing.

 

Perhaps you'd like to be a passenger in a plane piloted by sleepy pilots, shooting an approach into a zero visibility airfield, with marginal visibility at the alternate and with just B-C fuel and just sufficient left for 45 minutes holding.....

[Gavin Andrew David 6]

Nik , why not we provide a wonderful spa while we're at it .

 

That is part of the job , they didn't run into this field thinking its going to be a bed of roses .

 

Express bus driver also has to make do with a simple seat to sleep in , even though he pulls off long hours , driving through the night , pulling off probably similar hours to what is done on the aircraft , and having to concentrate throughout the time , last time I checked , no autopilot .

 

Do they have a bed to sleep in ? Does it mean they drive a bus visibility is not compromised ?

 

Thanks for the pilots point of view

[Kenneth T 0]

How quiet is quiet......that's depends how they define it

[Li Ren 2]

 

My opinion is don't know whether the sound proofing technology will be as good as now after few years of flying, just like the car sound proofing technology..

[Nik H. 3]

Nik , why not we provide a wonderful spa while we're at it .

 

That is part of the job , they didn't run into this field thinking its going to be a bed of roses .

 

Express bus driver also has to make do with a simple seat to sleep in , even though he pulls off long hours , driving through the night , pulling off probably similar hours to what is done on the aircraft , and having to concentrate throughout the time , last time I checked , no autopilot .

 

Do they have a bed to sleep in ? Does it mean they drive a bus visibility is not compromised ?

 

Thanks for the pilots point of view

 

Gavin, I'd thought better of you.

 

And using Express Bus drivers as a comparison is "highly intelligent" and not worth debating as the argument itself has brought the subject down to internet chat level.

 

Definitely Norman, Fitri and Dr Naim will have a better view of fatigue onset on Ultra Long Haul flights given their recent experience of crossing 13 time zones in 30 hours.

[Prashant K 0]

When you fly IFR, your best friend in the cockpit is your instruments. Flying under instruments can be very challenging on your body because relying on your instruments alone will produce accelaration and decelaration motions on your body which may cause you to question the reliabilty of your instruments. When the pilot is fatigued he is more prone to make errors when flying only under instruments because of all the motions acting on his body.

 

For example,when he is in a gentle rate one turn he may still think that the aircraft is flying wings leve,l this will cause him to increase angle of bank until he thinks his brain is telling him he is in the turn. He then has increased the angle of bank so much that he might get him self into a spiral dive. That is exactly how a fatigued pilot will fly under instruments.

 

Its impossible to compare bus drivers with pilots. Bus drivers do not have to conduct instrument approaches with + or - 2 degrees of heading error and + or - 0 feet on the altimeter.

 

A pilot has a right to be fussy about sleep.

[Khaled 2]

Its impossible to compare bus drivers with pilots. Bus drivers do not have to conduct instrument approaches with + or - 2 degrees of heading error and + or - 0 feet on the altimeter.

 

A pilot has a right to be fussy about sleep.

 

IMO, whether it is a bus driver or a pilot, both jobs requires high level of attention.

 

Pilot for the approach workload he needs to do after a long idle cruise into a low visibility airport. Bus driver for all the combination of small roads + curving + uphill downhill that he needs to maneuver through out the whole night for 8 hours without autodrive feature.

 

Driving is not easy. All you need is to fall asleep for 5 seconds, and you're out on the news. You guys who drive KUL-KBR-KUL will know what I mean.

 

Both jobs carry people's lives. No value can be put to that.

 

There's no double standard there.

 

 

[Gavin Andrew David 6]

Gavin, I'd thought better of you.

 

And using Express Bus drivers as a comparison is "highly intelligent" and not worth debating as the argument itself has brought the subject down to internet chat level.

 

Definitely Norman, Fitri and Dr Naim will have a better view of fatigue onset on Ultra Long Haul flights given their recent experience of crossing 13 time zones in 30 hours.

 

Then provide me with an example .

 

Are you telling me only pilots have to wake up when they're sleepy and work through different time zones ?

 

It sure did sound like that in your first post .

 

But hey , you're the pilot isn't it , you should know better .

 

 

 

When you fly IFR, your best friend in the cockpit is your instruments. Flying under instruments can be very challenging on your body because relying on your instruments alone will produce accelaration and decelaration motions on your body which may cause you to question the reliabilty of your instruments. When the pilot is fatigued he is more prone to make errors when flying only under instruments because of all the motions acting on his body.

 

For example,when he is in a gentle rate one turn he may still think that the aircraft is flying wings leve,l this will cause him to increase angle of bank until he thinks his brain is telling him he is in the turn. He then has increased the angle of bank so much that he might get him self into a spiral dive. That is exactly how a fatigued pilot will fly under instruments.

 

Its impossible to compare bus drivers with pilots. Bus drivers do not have to conduct instrument approaches with + or - 2 degrees of heading error and + or - 0 feet on the altimeter.

 

A pilot has a right to be fussy about sleep.

 

Hello Hello .....

 

are we still talking 380 , or C172's ?

[Nik H. 3]

Then provide me with an example .

 

Are you telling me only pilots have to wake up when they're sleepy and work through different time zones ?

 

It sure did sound like that in your first post .

 

But hey , you're the pilot isn't it , you should know better .

 

As I said earlier;And using Express Bus drivers as a comparison is "highly intelligent" and not worth debating as the argument itself has brought the subject down to internet chat level.

 

Khaled, Gavin, i have yet to meet a bus (NOT Airbus) driver that works through time zones, with his body being subjected to the the influences of circadian rythm, with effects of acclimatisation in an enclosed pressurised environment breathing dry air.

 

Anyway who else work sleeepily through time zones apart from Pilots and Angkasawan? Cabin crew face fatigue differently as their work is physical in nature, with emotional challenges being thrown at them by opinionated pasengers.

 

Last post.....I'm off to threads of feelgood............

[Naim 6]

Definitely Norman, Fitri and Dr Naim will have a better view of fatigue onset on Ultra Long Haul flights given their recent experience of crossing 13 time zones in 30 hours.

 

Yessir, I had the chance to work with a bunch of fatigued, but cheerful, professionals last few days, and admired this lot very much. Mind you, just 2 weeks ago I was on a 16-hr non-stop HKG-JFK return flight and being at the back or the cabin, had the chance to chat with the CX crew about their work. And a week later found myself on another MH long-haul. I must say in the last 2-3 weeks alone, I've come to appreciate better what these fine folks had to go through in order to discharge their duties diligently, while remaining sane, well-groomed and cheerful at all times.

 

I say, give them the best working conditions they so richly deserve.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Naim

[Naim 6]

Another profession with 'abnormal' working conditions, which most of us are ignorant of, is ...

 

The Star

Sunday December 7, 2008

 

Young docs walk a tightrope

By RASHVINJEET S. BEDI and HARIATI AZIZAN

 

After completing a gruelling course, young doctors have another challenge to face – a demanding two-year housemanship where they rely on lots of coffee, cope with very little sleep and put up with public chastisements.

 

SHE had always wanted to be a doctor but six months into her housemanship, she snapped and just couldn't take the stress anymore.

 

*Kavitha found the workload and endless hours on call a real burden, sapping her energy and spirit. Today, says her concerned father *Gurdave, she is close to having a nervous breakdown and is seeing a psychiatrist for counselling.

 

"The work load was too heavy and the hours too long. When she was on call, she sometimes had to work for up to 36 hours straight. She wants to be transferred to another hospital but every hospital is just as bad.

 

...

 

READ MORE HERE: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...6&sec=focus

 

I hope my daughter can cope - she's starting her housemanship any time now.

 

===

[BC Tam 2]

Probably going O/T here

Always wondered if these gruelling medic housemanships are necessitated by circumstances (staff shortage, etc) or is it some intended mechanism worked into the universal health system designed to weed out the 'weaklings' ?

Dr Izanee, your side of the story ?

[Guest redharahmad]

Probably going O/T here

Always wondered if these gruelling medic housemanships are necessitated by circumstances (staff shortage, etc) or is it some intended mechanism worked into the universal health system designed to weed out the 'weaklings' ?

Dr Izanee, your side of the story ?

 

Still not done with med school yet but based on what I hear from my seniors, the gruelling hours are a very asian thing. Elsewhere there are strict limits on the number of hours an HO/MO can work. Quite glad that I'm probably gonna do my housemanship elsewhere hehe

[Nik H. 3]

Another profession with 'abnormal' working conditions, which most of us are ignorant of, is ...

 

 

 

I hope my daughter can cope - she's starting her housemanship any time now.

 

===

 

Very Sad. Professionals working in an unprofessional working environment ( insofar as human endurance is concerned ).

 

If such working hour condition is prevalent in the Aviation Industry, we will see a sharp rise in HUFAC ( Human Factor) related incidents/accidents. Thankfully, the rules governing FTDT ( Flight Time Duty Time ) Limitations are well regulated and forms part of MCAR ( Malaysian Civil Aviation Regulations ) 1996. Punitive action will be taken against both employer and employee should the limits be breached. The Company cannot force and the Crew cannot be forced to wilfully break the Limits. The only exception will be in dire emergencies only where the crew can exercise discretion to extend beyond the allowable limits. Even then, a proper report is mandatory and must be filed with the Governing body.