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Nik H.

Hajj Flights From AOR??????

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Agreed with Captain Nik that once MH include neighboring countries, the market potential increased enormously. If Thai muslim will take MH for haj, they will take MH for their regular travel. However, I couldn’t understand why KUL/HDY was discontinued years ago and never reinstate, as take a similar travel time from HDY to BKK and KUL.

 

:drinks:

 

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As a local i would say YES, but as an aviator i would say NO...

 

From your report Capt., i dont think AOR can handle such a big giant jumbo 747..but 777 yes..

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Emm Capt, dont mind if I ask..Can we (mean Malaysian Operator) to handle Thai & Southern Thai Muslim/Pilgrim from/in Malaysia airport??

 

We mentioned MH, MAB, the State Governments and the Federal Government. But nobody mentioned Tabung Haji, our own Hajj authority. Every year there were non-Malaysian pilgrims who performed the Hajj through our Tabung Haji. Mostly Singaporeans I was told. So opening the scope to Thais is possible, if it is not done already.

 

Another thing to consider. Tabung Haji has plans to shift their Kelana Jaya complex to the LBJ area. This will ease the transit of pilgrims from domestic airports like AOR.

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We mentioned MH, MAB, the State Governments and the Federal Government. But nobody mentioned Tabung Haji, our own Hajj authority. Every year there were non-Malaysian pilgrims who performed the Hajj through our Tabung Haji. Mostly Singaporeans I was told. So opening the scope to Thais is possible, if it is not done already.

 

Another thing to consider. Tabung Haji has plans to shift their Kelana Jaya complex to the LBJ area. This will ease the transit of pilgrims from domestic airports like AOR.

 

Sorry Hj Maarof for missing out TH. In any Hajj scenario, TH's involvement is a given that is why its not mentioned. However, I am not aware of any significant foreign movement being handled by TH. Umrah yes, but Hajj I don't know.

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Sorry Hj Maarof for missing out TH. In any Hajj scenario, TH's involvement is a given that is why its not mentioned. However, I am not aware of any significant foreign movement being handled by TH. Umrah yes, but Hajj I don't know.

 

In Mina I met a few Singaporean pilgrims who came through our Tabung Haji. They must have embarked from Senai, Johor. Yes, being few they are not that significant. After all our authorities should take care of our people first, shoudn't we?

 

 

 

 

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What about that other charter start-up that had such ambitious plans for hajj services ?

Gone all quiet eh ?! :)

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If an investment in a one time upgrade is about RM10million, and it adds another 10% for maintenance upkeep, .....

IMO a budget of RM10million would not go very far nowadays where infrastructure works is concerned. Might just about cover consultants' fees and disbursements :)

That is unless you were referring to just MH's share of the investment sum ;)

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IMO a budget of RM10million would not go very far nowadays where infrastructure works is concerned. Might just about cover consultants' fees and disbursements :)

That is unless you were referring to just MH's share of the investment sum ;)

 

After much thought over the past few days i now have a workable solution to make what was impossible become difficult without the pain of too much investment.

 

Will be presenting my case to both MH Management and the Kedah State Government by first week December. I think many people will be happy but those required to work hard to make this happen may not share similar sentiment.

 

Its gonna be another fun ride and I think I'm gonna enjoy myself immensely. :yahoo:

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After much thought over the past few days i now have a workable solution to make what was impossible become difficult without the pain of too much investment.

 

Will be presenting my case to both MH Management and the Kedah State Government by first week December. I think many people will be happy but those required to work hard to make this happen may not share similar sentiment.

 

Its gonna be another fun ride and I think I'm gonna enjoy myself immensely. :yahoo:

 

All the best and good luck Capt for the presentations and I'll appreciate if you can share the meetings/presentations outcome with us..

 

Hope you enjoy it.. :D

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Its gonna be another fun ride and I think I'm gonna enjoy myself immensely. :yahoo:

 

The best recipe for success. Passion + Hardwork. Only with passion, one can enjoy his/her job :) and im very sure you're passionate about what you're currently doing :)

 

Well done and all the best with your presentation.

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IMO, better to have the AOR airport upgraded than to leave it status quo. It will be a change reaction thing I suppose with longer runway, better equipped facilities etc... not only it will increase the safety margins for our friends flying into and out of AOR, maybe other businesses could flourish as well, like cargo operations, light business jet, GA and so forth. Go for it Nik.

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..... i now have a workable solution to make what was impossible become difficult without the pain of too much investment.

Another 'rabbit out of the hat' manoeuvre :p

Well done and good luck ! :)

MKZ beckons next I understand ;)

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GOod luck Capt Nik...we are all rooting for you here! Your help to the South Thailand Muslims will be greatly rewarded, insyaAllah.

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Agreed with Captain Nik that once MH include neighboring countries, the market potential increased enormously. If Thai muslim will take MH for haj, they will take MH for their regular travel. However, I couldn’t understand why KUL/HDY was discontinued years ago and never reinstate, as take a similar travel time from HDY to BKK and KUL.

 

:drinks:

I disagree on this point. Southern Thailand is well served by 2 rather established international gateways of Phuket and Hat Yai. Humour me for a moment...

 

Phuket to Bangkok has about close to 15 flights a day, Hat Yai follows with probably half that. In short, it means there is already an international presence firmly established around those airports that can support such an operation. AOR is at best a secondary domestic airport in Malaysia with only 4 flights a day (3 on MH and one on AK) and unless the town that this airports serves has something to put it on an international scale, it will likely remain just that.

 

So for Thai pilgrims, they have a smoother option flying out immediately from Hat Yai and Phuket via Bangkok rather than making that 3 hr plus road trip to AOR.

 

Upgrade AOR to handle 747 once a year, sure why not? So for the rest of the 11 months, what will happen? KLIA is a big enough white elephant as it is so let's not create more mini-white elephants dotted around the country. Transitting through KLIA is not that bad an option because I have done it myself and it is seamless as it can be. Again, money comes into play. Spending millions for an upgrade but how long will you take to recover those costs? It is not like AOR has hundreds of international flights a day and passengers can pay for the upgrade via airport taxes and related fees. If the state government has no qualms about spending this money, then by all means do it. BUT this will come from the tax payers, in case no one realised it.

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I disagree on this point. Southern Thailand is well served by 2 rather established international gateways of Phuket and Hat Yai. Humour me for a moment...

 

Phuket to Bangkok has about close to 15 flights a day, Hat Yai follows with probably half that. In short, it means there is already an international presence firmly established around those airports that can support such an operation. AOR is at best a secondary domestic airport in Malaysia with only 4 flights a day (3 on MH and one on AK) and unless the town that this airports serves has something to put it on an international scale, it will likely remain just that.

 

So for Thai pilgrims, they have a smoother option flying out immediately from Hat Yai and Phuket via Bangkok rather than making that 3 hr plus road trip to AOR.

 

Upgrade AOR to handle 747 once a year, sure why not? So for the rest of the 11 months, what will happen? KLIA is a big enough white elephant as it is so let's not create more mini-white elephants dotted around the country. Transitting through KLIA is not that bad an option because I have done it myself and it is seamless as it can be. Again, money comes into play. Spending millions for an upgrade but how long will you take to recover those costs? It is not like AOR has hundreds of international flights a day and passengers can pay for the upgrade via airport taxes and related fees. If the state government has no qualms about spending this money, then by all means do it. BUT this will come from the tax payers, in case no one realised it.

 

Extremely good points put forward. Kudos Ryan.

 

However in the context of Hajj flights the scenario is vastly different. A Hajj flight is organised in an exclusive manner that encompasses as much Muslim values as possible, from halal food served by cabin crew in appropriate uniforms to the IFE content that has a Hajj flavor to it. Mascharters have through the years managed to refine these 'little' features into a seamless service delivery for Hajj flights. Going via BKK means using normal scheduled services, and the pilgrim is just another passenger. We'd like to think that this once in a lifetime journey for the majority of muslims starts when one steps into the aircraft.

 

Every year the muslims of Southern Thailand face uncertainty insofar as having a reliable Air Transport provider for the Hajj season. All sorts of aircraft from all sorts of 'wet lease arrangement' provider turns up, and there have been occasions where the aircraft turns up late, or out of specification or sometimes not turn up at all. Every year my office receives numerous requests for us to fly ex HTY or HKT from various parties there to mount Hajj flights. We have also 'bend' our Jeddah scheduled flights to pick up/send off pilgrims at these stations. Sometimes it works for them, sometimes it does not.

 

As for flying through BKK, the connections may not actually meet the movement pattern of the Hajj as organised Hajj movements are timed from the moment they leave home till the moment they arrive at their temporary residence not at Jeddah airport but at Makkah or Madinah. There are logistics movement involving the buses for mass land transportation and also synchronised check-in and check-out of pilgrims at their temporary residence in the Holy land.

 

On a door to door basis, going from AOR may be faster ; Leave home 6 hours before departure, hop on the 8.5 hour flight, reach Jeddah, hop on a 2.5 hour bus ride to Makkah and check-in the hotel. Or leave home 3 hours before departure, hop on a 1 hour flight to BKK, wait another 3 - 6 hours for connection, then another 8.5 hours to Jeddah......

 

Besides, its always better to fly direct non stop as any involvement of a stop means the risks of disruption is much increased. And disruption for Hajj movements will trigger a huge chain of logistic events at the other end.

 

Those who have been to Hajj will understand this well.

 

Although there may be a slight cost increase on the face of it, the intangible benefits especially from a reliability and strategic angle far outweighs the money issue. Furthermore, dealing with Mascharters means all costs are upfront as there is no hidden costs. Prices are nett and do not normally come with add-ons unless clients are made aware at the negotiation stage.

 

I'd like to think that the AOR program will allow us to make a small headway into this market over the next few years. Its not going to be easy, but more importantly, its not impossible.

 

There are many more compelling reasons that cannot be put forward as this is and OPEN forum.

 

Whatever the case, as per my last post, we have found a way to operate Hajj out of AOR ( subject to commitment from key dependencies) without a huge investment outlay, and at the same time maintain the airport as a 'black' elephant by skinning the cat differently.

 

I'd always like to tell my Hajj & Charter clients whenever cost comparison issue comes up the following;

Cheap not good, good not cheap.

Edited by Nik H.

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Phuket to Bangkok has about close to 15 flights a day, Hat Yai follows with probably half that. In short, it means there is already an international presence firmly established around those airports that can support such an operation.

 

 

Concurred with you.

 

You have proved there is a demand for air travelling in Southern Thailand but MH is shy from competition. If MH couldn’t serve regional routes, how could MH add value to airline alliances or make KUL a hub.

 

Aside from Southern Thailand, MH is missing out on Sumatra, Southern Philippines, Kalimantan and Sulawesi.

 

In Malaysia, few politicians or policy makers make their success from a level playing field business. Hence, like to stress intangible value to justify grand projects.

 

:drinks:

 

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Southern Thais can travel to TGG through Kelantan. When the new Eastern Highway completed all the way to Kota Bharu, then maybe TGG can play a bigger role for Hajj flights. Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat is nearer to Kelantan than it is to Kedah.

 

As a Kedahan however, of course I would like to see Hajj flight out of AOR. But considering the realities, better go through PEN as usual.

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