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Nik H.

Hajj Flights From AOR??????

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Way back in 2003, after we won the bid to operate the Hajj from AK, I was summoned by the then MB of Kedah to look into the possibility of operating the Hajj directly from AOR to the Holy Land VV. With the runway and airport being what it was then it was a non-starter. However, the State Govt still insisted that some if its Jemaah be given a smoother passage on the faith driven journey, and I proposed 5 dedicated connecting Charter flights from AOR to KUL and back scheduled to ensure the jemaah have minimum waiting time for at KLIA.

 

This arrangement have been going on since then. And Every year I was summoned to explain on why direct flights still could not be mounted, but i managed to convince them that operational viability was suspect, similar to the financial angle.

 

However, with the widespread publicity of TGG Hajj plans reaching the ears of the Kedahans, and with the recent completion of upgrading work on the airport, I was again summoned to explain how was it that TGG managed to do what the Kedahans initiated......

 

That was why yesterday I found myself on board an MH B737 to AOR for a few hours......

 

Met Capt HJ Daud who was flying the plane....

AOR_01.jpg

 

Significant improvements were made to the AOR Airport. But a 9006ft Runway meant that the B747 will be significantly payload restricted should the wind be -10kts on take-off. This is not good as AOR is a one-way out airfield. Then there's the issue of a building that is within the take-off path acting as an obstacle......

AOR_02.jpg

 

ILS....man, pilots nowadays are really spoilt....I remember my B737-200 days of Vor/NDB aproaches onto a Runway slightly more than a mile long without benifit of Map display nor GPS navigation....

AOR_03.jpg

 

Good thing though as there were low clouds with base of 3-400 feet around the airfield...

AOR_04.jpg

 

The view on approach

AOR_05.jpg

 

The F/O was flying the sector......and doing a damn good job.

AOR_06.jpg

 

We broke cloud at minima......335 feet above the surface.... Lucky we had ILS otherwise we could have had to go to PEN....

AOR_07.jpg

 

AOR_08.jpg

 

On arrival the DCA Pajero was on hand to take me around as i wanted to view the airport personally. Nothing like having a close look when planning something as critical as this....

AOR_09.jpg

 

AES setup.....Cat 6 only...we need Cat 9.

AOR_11.jpg

 

The Control Tower

AOR_12.jpg

 

I found out where the DCA's Cessna 206 and BN2 went.... and also saw a couple of Bulldogs there.

AOR_13.jpg

 

An American registered Cessna Citation belonging to a local....

AOR_14.jpg

 

The Old Terminal

AOR_15.jpg

 

The Hajj Terminal, built in 2003 to cater to the Direct Connection Pilgrims, now in a state of disrepair

AOR_16.jpg

Edited by Nik H.

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Checked out the old apron to see if the area is big enough for a B747 to go in, park, and exit safely. The apron however, as it is is large enough, but with a PCN of only 41, the B747 will probably sink into the concrete.

AOR_21.jpg

 

We then proceeded towards the Runway, but not after waiting for 15 minutes at the holding point as the RMAF PCs were doing TaGs.

 

The RMAF 'hangars'....

AOR_17.jpg

 

The PC7s....

AOR_19.jpg

 

AOR_18.jpg

 

We then entered the Runway...and I saw 300 meters ( 1000ft of wasted pavement ) beyond threshold Rwy22.....

AOR_20.jpg

 

We then drove on the full length to the other end....

AOR_22.jpg

 

AOR_23.jpg

 

The view from Runway 04 end...

AOR_24.jpg

 

After which we drove onto the primeter service road back. The HIAL for Rwy04.

AOR_25.jpg

 

After that I went to the meeting with the local State officials to discuss direct flights for next year......

 

So, MWingers. my question is, what are your opinions as to...

 

a. Can do or not?

b. Shall do or not?

 

Do you think AOR will see a B747-400 proving flight like the one we did in TGG?

 

Do you think the locals will get to see the low fly-past as well as the B747 over the skies of AOR town.....?

 

And if its gonna happen, would any of you guys wanna cover the event, even fly on the First Flight......?

 

We live in Interesting times No.......? :D

Edited by Nik H.

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Wow..some nice "behind the fence" shots there.

 

Just a question...would using a smaller aircraft suffice? A 777 say?

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In my opinion, they should utilize Penang for Hajj flights as the demand is not through out the whole year and the load to AOR on daily basis is quite light as well.

 

Unlike Trengganu, whereby the expansion benefits those from the east coast, like Kelantan and Pahang. Otherwise those from KBR need to drive 8 hours to KUL! (8hrs is my average time driving time via Gua Musang :) )

 

 

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Saw this thread just after returning home from a flight to AOR....

 

I'd say no. PEN would be a better hub for northern states, covering Perlis, Kedah, Penang and northern Perak. If you do hajj from AOR you will still need to do hajj from PEN as well. Even from Perlis it took only 3 hours at most to go to PEN, so it is not much an issue. And of course we have the technical issue of one way runway which will restrict payload.

 

BTW, do some search on A.net and you'll see the B737 Hajj charter flight some years ago.

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I'm kinda agree with Imran. The entire motive right now is to bring a B747 for the direct flight, but I suspect that given the number or pilgrims from the northern and eastern part of Kedah (as those who live in Kulim and Baling might prefer to go thru PEN instead or AOR) and Perlis, a B777 will clearly a better choice for that purpose. Maybe just a single/double flights will do it. But definitely this will add more cost in terms of preparation and so I wouldn't be too optimistic about this idea.

 

But AOR is really special to some of us, including myself.. The first flight experience that I had in 1990 from SUB to AOR is still fresh in my mind. And having quite lucky to fly to a number of major airports around the world make me realize; there's no other airport that can beat AOR.. (a little bit of exaggeration here.. hehe :p) but who can beat the awesome paddy field @bendang scenery right? from crystal clear water to greenish to yellowish and finally.. SMOG.. (u know what I'm talking about)

 

Cheers,

-muz-

Edited by Mohamad Othman

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Politicians always view thing from political point of view. As PEN is not in Kedah state, I think Kedah State Government will not giving up their effort to promote AOR.

 

Just a silly question here : if AOR is not suitable, how about LGK ?

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That would be much more of a hassle since then everyone wanting to go to Hajj would have to go on a ferry etc.

 

Going to Hajj is a big thing, and usually extended family members go to send you off, it would be hard if they had to go to LGK.

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1. I don't quite understand why Kedah State officials is making a big issue about having direct flights for Hajj.

 

2. Based on Capt Nik's brief explanation above, there are quite substantial upgrades to be done if they want to cater for a B747, I wonder how much though?

 

3. Will the state be willing to give up more 'Bendang' areas for such a purpose? I think producing rice is far more productive.

 

4. Who picks up the bill for airport expansion works? MAB or the State?

 

5. Penang is the most viable airport since it's quite 'central' to those from Northern Perak and Perlis.

 

6. Yes, we are living in Interesting Times!!!

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So, MWingers. my question is, what are your opinions as to...

 

a. Can do or not?

b. Shall do or not?

 

>> a. Can if the state government can invest money to upgrade the AOR Airport from A to Z..Same like TGG had done..But for TGG case,I don't know where the money come from..

 

>> b. Shall not..Don't waste such huge amount of money for this..Only seasonal purpose and AOR can't get any direct flight since PEN & LGK provide good international direct flight & charter flight..Plus as other our member mnetion above..

 

Do you think AOR will see a B747-400 proving flight like the one we did in TGG?

Maybe..in my dream for this time being.. :D :D

 

Do you think the locals will get to see the low fly-past as well as the B747 over the skies of AOR town.....?

Can if I wake up from my dream :lol: :lol: and current state government change hand.. :p :P

 

And if its gonna happen, would any of you guys wanna cover the event, even fly on the First Flight......?

I want Capt..How much Sofian & I score for last event?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

 

 

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Politicians always view thing from political point of view

Apparently it's a global thing nowadays, this need for mega airport upgrades :)

 

Kenya seeks big airport for Obama

 

Kenyan MPs have called for an airport in the west of the country to be upgraded for Air Force One in case Barack Obama wins the US elections.

 

Mr Obama's father was born in Nyanza Province and the MPs say the local Kisumu airport should be expanded in case he wants to visit.

 

The Illinois senator is a local hero in his father's homeland, where a local beer has been named after him.

 

Mr Obama has never lived in Kenya and he has visited just three times.

 

read in full here

Between the two, I would say that AOR is the one deserving consideration though :)

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I'm a Kedahan, but I'll say no. Would love to see 747 coming but better stick to PEN.

I reckoned it was more of political thing than to see from economic or technical feasibility.

Every state want to compete to be the best of everything and the must have of everything.

Remember the Kedah Maju 20xx or Selangor Maju 20xx.. thing.

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After that I went to the meeting with the local State officials to discuss direct flights for next year......

 

So, MWingers. my question is, what are your opinions as to...

 

a. Can do or not?

b. Shall do or not?

 

Do you think AOR will see a B747-400 proving flight like the one we did in TGG?

 

Do you think the locals will get to see the low fly-past as well as the B747 over the skies of AOR town.....?

 

And if its gonna happen, would any of you guys wanna cover the event, even fly on the First Flight......?

 

We live in Interesting times No.......?

No, if MH is going to incurred losses from the operation. No, if MAHB is going to incurred losses from upgrading the airport to support the B744s. No, if the State Government have fork out billion of Ringgit from their Treasury (a significant % from their annual Budget) just to get this 'dream' comes true. So, it a big NO to me.

 

It has become a trend that every Kampung in Malaysia wants to have their own international airport with direct flights to Jeddah, London and New York, so the intention is understandable but whether it is viable or not is a completely of different case. Malaysia is only allocated with around 25,000 hajj pilgrims quota a year. Should all 25,000 of them fly to JED/MED from KUL, KUL is still a white elephant anyway (an increase of 50,000 [25,000 x 2] passengers movement is not significant).

 

Anyway, if it does happens (we should never undermine the spirit of Malaysia Boleh), I wouldn't mind to fly on the First Flight again. This time around, I hope the First Class seats will be opened for purchase.

 

Speaking of AOR, any news on their previous bid to get AK to open a hub there (again competing against PEN)?

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Malaysia is only allocated with around 25,000 hajj pilgrims quota a year. Should all 25,000 of them fly to JED/MED from KUL, KUL is still a white elephant anyway (an increase of 50,000 [25,000 x 2] passengers movement is not significant).

 

Exactly what was playing through my mind last night.

 

Why not just improve the transit facilities for Hajj passengers instead of trying to operate mammoth sized aircraft into small airports?

 

 

If people are worried about the crowds, then they're DEFINITELY on the wrong trip of their lifetime aren't they? :rolleyes:

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do bear in mind that this state is now run by the opposition. He He.

 

 

Meaning what?

 

I dont see what the change in government has to do with somewhat basic economics.

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heard over the radio news this morning, dato' zahid hamidi suggesting a direct hajj flight from Batu Berendam (INTERNATIONAL) airport to jeddah for this coming hajj season. another of those brilliant ideas from M'sian politician. now, every MP is suggesting a direct hajj flight from every available airport in the country...brilliant, simple brilliant... :bad: and the dato' also said that a B747 or A330 should be able to land at Batu Barendam...

Edited by Victor A.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but has AOR been completely upgraded to handle an A330? Maybe that is a better option, no?

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Meaning what?

 

I dont see what the change in government has to do with somewhat basic economics.

 

Its about policies, and decision making process on the allocation of funds, not about basic economics. Despite what seems apparent from an economic and financial angle, the issue of intangibles are also considered. Being an open forum, there's a lot that cannot be said here. It is not an entirely bad idea.

 

For sure, as long as ther are muslims, the Hajj movement will repeat itself yearly. Also consider, Southern Thailand is only 2-3 hours away. Every year 6,000 Muslims are available to be tapped as passage from HTY and HKT is at best, unreliable. If an investment in a one time upgrade is about RM10million, and it adds another 10% for maintenance upkeep, but enables about RM 40 - 60 million worth of Hajj business annually, what would you do?

 

While Malaysian Politicians may not be the sharpest in the world, there are still the honest and intelligent few who can make a difference. And they are quietly doing so.

 

An idea which at a glance seems stupid may not be entirely so with further diligent study.

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Having Southern Thailand into the picture will change the perspective differently.

 

Now the idea doesn't seems too bad after all.

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For sure, as long as ther are muslims, the Hajj movement will repeat itself yearly. Also consider, Southern Thailand is only 2-3 hours away. Every year 6,000 Muslims are available to be tapped as passage from HTY and HKT is at best, unreliable. If an investment in a one time upgrade is about RM10million, and it adds another 10% for maintenance upkeep, but enables about RM 40 - 60 million worth of Hajj business annually, what would you do?

 

Emm Capt, dont mind if I ask..Can we (mean Malaysian Operator) to handle Thai & Southern Thai Muslim/Pilgrim from/in Malaysia airport??

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Emm Capt, dont mind if I ask..Can we (mean Malaysian Operator) to handle Thai & Southern Thai Muslim/Pilgrim from/in Malaysia airport??

 

There will be issues that will make the venture difficult. Difficult is good as it will keep the pretenders out. Difficult also means that with hard work, it can be done

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